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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7813251" data-attributes="member: 6704184">The simpler conclusion that jives more closely with the majority of more in depth arguments i've seen up to today would be, &quot;the powers may not literally be the same, but they effectively are, because they do basically the same couple things, and there is no meaningful difference between any two examples.&quot; Which is what I'm arguing against. It ain't true, and this isn't a matter of opinion, because it can objectively be tested. The powers do different things that can and do completely change the course of a scene depending on what powers are used. Even if we don't compare Split The Tree to Flaming Sphere, or other such powers that are completely, undeniably, different in every single facet other than the visual organizational structure and the fact they both result in damage. I mean, literally show me a power in the power list of any martial class that is remotely similar to Flaming Sphere or Wall of Fire? My Hexblade had weird zones of shadowy blindness and nectrotic damage, and the ability to move targets he hit in any direction from like 3 squares away. My rogue could not be built with anything like that, nor my monk, warlord, or ranger. My assassin could become a shadow creature that damaged anything that hit him, and teleport short distances at will. It really is objectively true that the classes and powers are very different, and presentation creates the false perception of lacking diversity of outcome and methodology in play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7813251, member: 6704184"] The simpler conclusion that jives more closely with the majority of more in depth arguments i've seen up to today would be, "the powers may not literally be the same, but they effectively are, because they do basically the same couple things, and there is no meaningful difference between any two examples." Which is what I'm arguing against. It ain't true, and this isn't a matter of opinion, because it can objectively be tested. The powers do different things that can and do completely change the course of a scene depending on what powers are used. Even if we don't compare Split The Tree to Flaming Sphere, or other such powers that are completely, undeniably, different in every single facet other than the visual organizational structure and the fact they both result in damage. I mean, literally show me a power in the power list of any martial class that is remotely similar to Flaming Sphere or Wall of Fire? My Hexblade had weird zones of shadowy blindness and nectrotic damage, and the ability to move targets he hit in any direction from like 3 squares away. My rogue could not be built with anything like that, nor my monk, warlord, or ranger. My assassin could become a shadow creature that damaged anything that hit him, and teleport short distances at will. It really is objectively true that the classes and powers are very different, and presentation creates the false perception of lacking diversity of outcome and methodology in play. [/QUOTE]

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