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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6665588" data-attributes="member: 87792">What people don't get is that realistic and gritty is a whole lot more lethal than cinematic. Fighters are stronger at The Red Wedding than they are in Indiana Jones. I can absolutely imagine an olympic level athlete in the company of wizards who is highly effective. A fighter who can "counterspell" by hitting the wizard in the back of the throat with a throwing knife before two words are out. Who can cast the "save or die" spell of Arrow-through-the-eye-into-the-brain against a dragon. In short not superhumanly fast, strong, or accurate. But still much faster, stronger, and more accurate than most people are.The D&D fighter is, due to the nature of the hit point system, effectively armed with nerf weapons. An AD&D fighter takes a minute to kill a single orc. 3.0, 3.5 and 4e are a little better. Most 3.5 fighters take six seconds to kill. Not a single slash of their sword to cut someone's throat open and let them bleed out. Or a single lunge through the heart. The simple rule on which the fighter stands and falls is that if anyone has a reliable way round the hit point system the fighter should be first in line, the rogue second, and the spellcasters dead last. You want to talk to me about save-or-die spells. Tell me, what spell is more deadly than decapitation? We're bound by realism here, people. Realism against decapitation. It might be realistic for a spell to be as deadly as a lucerne hammer through the skull. But it certainly isn't realistic for a spell to be more deadly.It doesn't matter what level of realism people impose on the fighter, by definition they need to be the best at combat around or there is no point to them.Are powerful wizards with deep bags of tricks possible alongside gritty fighters? Sure. But the gritty fighter should be a hardened killer and the deeper the wizard's bag of tricks the more likely it is that the fighter should be able to kill the wizard with both hands tied behind their back.Agreed.</blockquote>

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