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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6667833" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yes, but there is something subtle here I think you are missing.First of all, other classes have always to some extent been present in the combat sphere.  Even back in 1e, the M-U and the Thief, while being very weak in combat where not excluded from it and were expected to contribute most of the time in some fashion - even if it was just standing back and hurling darts and purloined poisoned daggers.  So it's not like by saying, "A fighter is one that fights", we are saying that fighters are the only one that can fight.  What we are saying is that everyone who has the approach to combat of the fighter is a fighter, where the fighters approach to combat is the classical approach of mastery of armed combat.  Basically, if in some fashion you spar, practice striking targets, go through weapon drills, lift weights and so forth and that's how you get better, you are probably a fighter.So that leaves us the question, "Are their other approaches to fighting beyond that of the fighter?"  And I believe that the answer is clearly, "Yes.", but that it is in some cases subjective where you draw the line.One obvious answer is the answer of the Wizard, "I will prosper in combat not by force of arms or skill with weapons, but by mastery of esoteric and arcane arts!"  This is clearly a very different answer than the fighter.  The wizard is an idea distinct in my opinion from the fighter.   But I would argue that there are some other ideas that are also subtly different than the fighter even though they are martial classes.Consider the answer of the Rogue, "I don't really do combat.  Crossing blades with a foes is for chumps.  I skulk and deceive to avoid combat.  But when I must fight, I will use sneaky tricks and underhanded tactics to disable a foe before the fight really begins."  Again, the rogue fights, but the concept of what fighting is to a Rogue is very different than the Fighter.  Not only can we see that combat isn't as important to the rogue as the fighter, but the idea of mastery of combat and mastery of arms is missing.Even more subtle, consider the answer of the Barbarian.  No, I don't like the name 'Barbarian'.  I don't consider it very appropriate for the class, and the proof of that is how many NPCs you see in published modules that are Barbarian classed without being culturally 'barbarians', but without getting into a long argument, I think the following is reasonable to understanding what is unique to the Barbarian class: "I love to fight, but my power doesn't come from long practice with blades or cunning tactics.  I draw my strength from within.  I draw upon my emotions - my rage, my hatred, my madness, my will to win, and the indomitable fearlessness that comes with it, to become invincible and strike off my opponents head."  This is an almost alien viewpoint to the fighter, and is really mystical at some level.   The idea that I'm going to draw upon my Rage to turn myself into a weapon, isn't something that is within the fighter's view of combat where victory is supposed to come by disciplined skill at arms.  Now, as I've already hinted, I think the archetype commonly called 'Barbarian' is actually far broader than the narrow focus it has historically been constrained to in the same way that the fighter is being unnecessarily constrained.  In my game, the Barbarian has been replaced by the slightly more versatile concept of the Fanatic.  A classical Barbarian is merely a Fanatic whose background is that he has been initiated in to the secret military society of a primitive people, where he learned how to harness his rage, and could be inspired by anything from an Aztec Jaguar Warrior, to a Mandan brave, to a Gaulish warrior, to a Norse Beserker, to a Jewish Nazarene or Zealot.   But he could also be a member of an elite Imperial Bodyguard, a psychotic madman, a brainwashed patriotic shocktrooper of some sort (Bonzai!), a warrior channeling his Ki (see the Boxer Rebellion), or an oathsworn Templar.</blockquote>

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