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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6669931" data-attributes="member: 20323">Great conversation so far <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Fighter is a D&D topic near and dear to my heart, since it is the class I usually play when I'm a player.I relate to your high design concept of the fighter  [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION] as being a class with multiple "talent trees" (or something like that) which you choose from as you advance. It strikes me as the best way to accommodate the many fighter archetypes: cavalier/knight, hero of destiny/literary protagonist, dragon slayer, veteran/man-at-arms, warlord/champion, duelist/swashbuckler, etc. Either that or you create a fighter with many sub-classes like the 5e wizard or cleric. I'm actually doing my own redesign using that as a guiding principle.For me, fighters universally embody three things:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Weapon Superiority</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Endurance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prestige/Reputation</li> </ul>Weapon Superiority. Fighters should be the absolute best with weapons. They should use weapons in interesting ways that distinguish between axe, sword, pick, or maul more than damage numbers. When a fighters attacks other players at the table should take notice, and it should feel visceral and dynamic, drawing from armed martial arts (I'm thinking Western Martial Arts). Also, fighters should be able to do a limited version of bardic lore or identify with arms and armor, maintain arms and armor (if there are arms/armor degradation rules), display their weapon prowess to cause doubt/despair/fear in lesser foes, and talk shop with the local smith to get a good deal or learn who is ordering weapons. Maybe called shots should be a distinctly fighter thing, or maybe they should be particularly skilled at called shots. At higher levels they probably should get either a special attack that circumvents HP or a massive multi-attack against weak foes like in AD&D.Endurance. Fighters should be the hardiest characters, and not just in terms of hit points. They should have the best saving throws. They should be able to delay suffering infirmities/conditions long enough to take one more crucial action. They should carry fallen characters without breaking a sweat, hold their breath for amazing lengths, stay on watch all night without batting an eye the next morning, labor in the salt-mines without suffering exhaustion/fatigue, and forced march longer and harder than others. Some fighter archetypes (e.g. duelist/swashbuckler) may tweak the specifics of what this endurance looks like, but the general principle applies.Prestige/Reputation. Fighters should leverage prestige/renown/reputation more than other characters, or in ways other characters cannot. They might acquire a stronghold and followers. They might have a reputation as a ruthless yet honorable mercenary Whatever the case for the individual fighter, ALL fighters should eventually develop reputation as bad-asses, and they should be able to leverage that reputation in play. This might be inspiring despair/dread/fear in unfriendly or hostile creatures, contacting old war contacts, getting a deal on arms & armor, negotiating for higher pay or an extra provision in the contract, etc.When I look at the main fighter archetypes -- cavalier/knight, hero of destiny/literary protagonist, dragon slayer, veteran/man-at-arms, warlord/champion, duelist/swashbuckler -- I can see these 3 points applying to all of them.</blockquote>

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