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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ogrork the Mighty" data-source="post: 3157280" data-attributes="member: 19042">I was looking at the rules and I dunno if they work that well at higher levels. A 15-HD creature with a +0 Wis modifier has a DC of 30. So for your average negotiation, it takes a 30 to succeed. Sounds like not too many deals will be taking place. Ironically, at higher levels creatures become more stubborn and, as a result, less effective at negotiating. Two fire giants haggling over an orange would be doing so for a very long time indeed.Although I guess I'm not looking at it from the point of view of a tweaked out Diplomacy character. But it appears that those are the only people who can negotiate effectively at higher levels.IMC, I use the simple golden rule that you can't convince someone of doing something they don't want to do, regardless of the check result. However unlikely, its still gotta be possible for the target to accept the deal. If not, no amount of Diplomacy is going to work. I also ignore Diplomacy for creatures that refuse to negotiate. It's kinda hard to convince someone when they're not willing to listen to you. And I also use the "no-cheese/no-dice" rule: "So you wanna trade me your ball of wax for my castle? Sorry, no dice." I wouldn't even dignify that with a roll.I think a lot of the problems with Diplomacy can be readily and easily solved by having a DM who knows what he's doing. A DM's job isn't to just sit there and administer die rolls; a DM's job is to oversee the game and make sure the rules aren't manipulated to create broken results. And if that means ignoring the Diplomacy check of a character with a +57 check result, so be it.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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