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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 6687632" data-attributes="member: 6786252">Generic rogues ARE tied up in aspects of thievery.&nbsp; That's why you are offered things like Stealth, Thief Tools, Slight of Hand, and Deception.&nbsp;&nbsp; Expertise is designed to make you really good at those skills.&nbsp; Thieves’ Cant is for communicating in code with others in a &quot;thief guild&quot; situation.&nbsp; Cunning Action is for moving quickly and getting out of sight.&nbsp; The Thief subclass just makes you better at those basic stuff.&nbsp; EDIT - even the other subclasses are tied up in thievery.&nbsp; Assassin - you've got disguises to sneak in and kill someone, and you'll need to use your Sleight of Hand and lock picking to plant the poison, or get them somewhere alone, etc.&nbsp; Arcane Trickster uses the mage hand for telekinetic legerdemain.&nbsp; Swashbuckler is the only exception, given its focus on fighting over doing anything else.&nbsp;*raises eyebrow* Name them.&nbsp; Poison is a rogue thing, yes.&nbsp; So are things like choking powder, caltrops, and trip wires. But the rest?&nbsp; Not really.&nbsp; World of Warcraft doesn't count, as Engineer and other alchemist stuff is divorced from class.&nbsp; A &quot;generic rogue&quot; uses poison, traps, stealth, acrobatic tricks, speed, and dirty fighting - of late, shadowstepping is also growing popular addition, but that's been relegated to the Shadow Monk and Arcane Trickster.&nbsp; Smoke bombs are a thing (thief cunning hand), but blowing things up and potion guzzling isn't really a rogue thing.There's D&amp;D gnomes and kobalds (which in other mediums occasionally merge halflings and goblins) who are big on that stuff, but their entire cultures are invested in the alchemy, including non-rogue types.Irregardless, just asking what you thought it lacked.&nbsp; Which you seem to have listed!&nbsp; So, lets look, shall we?You want tumbling and balancing?&nbsp;&nbsp; Reliable Talent, Second Story Work, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion.&nbsp; Trap making?&nbsp; Get a kit proficency.&nbsp; Escape artistry, rightrope walking, pole vaulting?&nbsp; That's acrobatics skill, which rogues get and can take Expertise in.&nbsp; Poison concentration is due to a poison kit proficency (add your proficency bonus to poisons you make).&nbsp; Sly flourish is sneak attack in a nutshell.&nbsp; Script deciphering is in a feat.&nbsp; Reading of faces is Insight or Deception checks (skills rogue has).&nbsp; That leaves your alchemy stuff (which is NOT part of a generic rogue), rope use (no rules in 5e for it), and local knowledge checks (again, no rules anywhere).&nbsp; Everything else is already there.&nbsp;&nbsp; The &quot;holes&quot; aren't really there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 6687632, member: 6786252"] Generic rogues ARE tied up in aspects of thievery. That's why you are offered things like Stealth, Thief Tools, Slight of Hand, and Deception. Expertise is designed to make you really good at those skills. Thieves’ Cant is for communicating in code with others in a "thief guild" situation. Cunning Action is for moving quickly and getting out of sight. The Thief subclass just makes you better at those basic stuff. EDIT - even the other subclasses are tied up in thievery. Assassin - you've got disguises to sneak in and kill someone, and you'll need to use your Sleight of Hand and lock picking to plant the poison, or get them somewhere alone, etc. Arcane Trickster uses the mage hand for telekinetic legerdemain. Swashbuckler is the only exception, given its focus on fighting over doing anything else. *raises eyebrow* Name them. Poison is a rogue thing, yes. So are things like choking powder, caltrops, and trip wires. But the rest? Not really. World of Warcraft doesn't count, as Engineer and other alchemist stuff is divorced from class. A "generic rogue" uses poison, traps, stealth, acrobatic tricks, speed, and dirty fighting - of late, shadowstepping is also growing popular addition, but that's been relegated to the Shadow Monk and Arcane Trickster. Smoke bombs are a thing (thief cunning hand), but blowing things up and potion guzzling isn't really a rogue thing. There's D&D gnomes and kobalds (which in other mediums occasionally merge halflings and goblins) who are big on that stuff, but their entire cultures are invested in the alchemy, including non-rogue types. Irregardless, just asking what you thought it lacked. Which you seem to have listed! So, lets look, shall we? You want tumbling and balancing? Reliable Talent, Second Story Work, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion. Trap making? Get a kit proficency. Escape artistry, rightrope walking, pole vaulting? That's acrobatics skill, which rogues get and can take Expertise in. Poison concentration is due to a poison kit proficency (add your proficency bonus to poisons you make). Sly flourish is sneak attack in a nutshell. Script deciphering is in a feat. Reading of faces is Insight or Deception checks (skills rogue has). That leaves your alchemy stuff (which is NOT part of a generic rogue), rope use (no rules in 5e for it), and local knowledge checks (again, no rules anywhere). Everything else is already there. The "holes" aren't really there. [/QUOTE]

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