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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tjnova9724" data-source="post: 8006799" data-attributes="member: 6979000">I have a few problem with your explanation here. First, I would pretty strongly disagree with you about your last point. I don’t often see people treading water with their best saving throws. Typically, a rogue or bard making a decision save is going to beat it by at least 5, and with a max of +11 to saves without magic items, and a max DC of 19 without magic items, you’re gonna be succeeding that save roughly 60% of the time, not 50%. This might seem a bit nit-picky,  but in a game with this much chance involved, probability is everything. There are also two other things you don’t seem to really take into account that complicate the issue. The first being that 99% of the time in D&D, you’re not fighting fellow party members, but rather monsters and enemies, a great many of which have magic resistance, already putting the spellcaster at a disadvantage when casting a spell on them. Even worse, they tend to have anywhere from 2 to 4 proficiency bonuses for saving throws, with their best ones often being higher than a player whose level matches their CR. Worst of all, many of the higher level enemies that you would face around the time that bounded accuracy becomes a problem for martial classes have legendary resistance, which in most cases is just a way to make sure that if by some miracle their magical resistance and proficiency bonuses fail them and they don’t manage to succeed the spell save, they can just choose to say they succeeded anyways. These abilities tend to put spellcasters using DC spells(which, at above 5th level, are essentially the only kind of spell) at a pretty big disadvantage. The second thing to take into account are magic items. Up until now I’ve been trying to keep them out of the discussion, but if your table does use magic items, spellcasters are often put at an even larger advantage, as weapons that grant bonuses to attack rolls are incredibly plentiful, and exist at almost every rarity. Meanwhile, the only items that boost spell save DC’s are items that either increase an ability score above 20 (since, in this case, we’re focusing mainly on late game, and have been assuming a maxed out spellcasting stat for all our previous arguments),increase your proficiency bonus, or increase spell save DC on its own. As far as I’m aware, all items that do any of these three things are either very rare or legendary, meaning that they’re significantly less likely to be available to a spellcaster than the many weapons granting +1 or +2 bonuses to attack rolls that litter the DMG.When taking both of these into account, it becomes a lot easier to see why the OP might be frustrated by a max Spell Save DC of 19. In my opinion, this could be pretty easily fixed by Wizards just releasing some higher level spells that use attack rolls rather than saving throws, or by simply releasing some lower rarity magic items that boost spell save DC.</blockquote>

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