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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8226946" data-attributes="member: 16814">This requires an earlier step, where the GM frames an obstacle for the PC to overcome.&nbsp; The GM decides this.&nbsp; Honestly, this is pretty common in most RPGS -- opposition is part of the GM's job.Here, the GM decides if the action can succeed, and if it can, whether or not it's uncertain.&nbsp; If uncertain, the GM determines the ability to be used, and assigns a DC.&nbsp; In your example, the GM is also picking what proficiency is to be used with the ability check.&nbsp; In all of these regards, the GM is the one deciding.This is not the only possible outcome.&nbsp; The GM may have checked their notes and noted an heretofore unnoticed guard at the top of the wall, and so narrated the player climbing the wall only to have the alarm raised anyway.&nbsp; You've selected an outcome here, but the upshot is that you did this selection in the guise of the GM.&nbsp; I'm not even postulating bad faith GMing here -- it's literally up to the GM to narrate the result of a check -- nothing in the 5e rules demands they particularly honor success in any specific or defined way.&nbsp; Heck, the GM might actually call for a second climb check after the first if they determine it's necessary, meaning the first check isn't really a success but just a wicket passed on the way to the second check.&nbsp; The GM is deciding what happens here, at all points along the way after &quot;I'm climbing the wall to avoid the guards.&quot;Optional doesn't require it to be weak. Feats and multiclassing are both optional and not weak.&nbsp; The point remains that the only mechanic in 5e that remotely goes to protagonism is both optional and very weak.&nbsp; D&amp;D does protagonism poorly, and by design.&nbsp; Having a game that does a thing (or doesn't) by design means it's just not meant to be played in a way that promotes that play agenda.&nbsp; This is fine.&nbsp; Blades in the Dark is terrible for skilled-play dungeon crawling -- by (or rather because of) design.&nbsp; D&amp;D is pretty good at this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8226946, member: 16814"] This requires an earlier step, where the GM frames an obstacle for the PC to overcome. The GM decides this. Honestly, this is pretty common in most RPGS -- opposition is part of the GM's job. Here, the GM decides if the action can succeed, and if it can, whether or not it's uncertain. If uncertain, the GM determines the ability to be used, and assigns a DC. In your example, the GM is also picking what proficiency is to be used with the ability check. In all of these regards, the GM is the one deciding. This is not the only possible outcome. The GM may have checked their notes and noted an heretofore unnoticed guard at the top of the wall, and so narrated the player climbing the wall only to have the alarm raised anyway. You've selected an outcome here, but the upshot is that you did this selection in the guise of the GM. I'm not even postulating bad faith GMing here -- it's literally up to the GM to narrate the result of a check -- nothing in the 5e rules demands they particularly honor success in any specific or defined way. Heck, the GM might actually call for a second climb check after the first if they determine it's necessary, meaning the first check isn't really a success but just a wicket passed on the way to the second check. The GM is deciding what happens here, at all points along the way after "I'm climbing the wall to avoid the guards." Optional doesn't require it to be weak. Feats and multiclassing are both optional and not weak. The point remains that the only mechanic in 5e that remotely goes to protagonism is both optional [I]and [/I]very weak. D&D does protagonism poorly, and by [I]design[/I]. Having a game that does a thing (or doesn't) by design means it's just not meant to be played in a way that promotes that play agenda. This is fine. Blades in the Dark is terrible for skilled-play dungeon crawling -- by (or rather because of) [I]design[/I]. D&D is pretty good at this. [/QUOTE]

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