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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8227111" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't think I'm the one who brought D&D into the conversation. You did post an example of how you prep for D&D, and the notion of player-author PC dramatic needs didn't figure anywhere in it. That's not a criticism, just an observation.If the players aren't providing the primary trajectory of play, it follows that player-authored PC dramatic needs are not at the heart of play. Which in turn tells us that the play is not protagonistic in the sense that [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] has talked about.And players can't author dramatic needs for their PCs without enjoying authorship responsibility in respect of key NPCs, places and events. A player can't establish a revenge goal, for instance, without establishing that some or other NPC wronged his/her PC in some or other fashion. A player can't establish a goal to redeem a family member or family line without establishing the existence and dubious past of the relevant NPCs. Even a more abstract goal, such as being the greatest explorer of the age or showing that Elvish ideals can triumph over Orcish ones, can't be the focus of play without the GM paying significant regard to it in framing situations, meaning that the player is setting significant constraints on the GM's framing decisions.I'm sure that some people play 5e D&D in something like this fashion. But I agree with [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] that it has some features that aren't ideal for this sort of play, and that a lack of finality in non-combat resolution is one of those. To once again bring that back to the topic of this thread, 5e D&D tends to assume that non-combat resolution will take place in a context of, and by reference to, features of a fictional situation that the GM has already established independently of the declaration of the action. (A dungeon map and key is the paradigm in this respect.) And that sort of preparation tends not to fit that well with player-authored dramatic needs being at the heart of play. If you look at systems that are expressly designed for protagonistic play, one feature of them tends to be prising action resolution of any need to have already settled all the details of the fictional situation that would matter, in the fiction, to how things turn out. (This is sometimes lampooned as "Schroedinger's whatever".)</blockquote>

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