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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8227297" data-attributes="member: 93670">The thieves guild &amp; other off screen stuff are quantum when they aren't being observed or interacted with.&nbsp; In games like fate mentioning it like in the example can actually cost(and potentially gain) the player a resource but it gets done anyway because they are already there if at any point in the future their presence there can improve something in an interesting way so why not spice it up by putting them there now so things are interesting today.I think that touches on a lot of the problem I have with some of [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER]'s protagonistic examples.&nbsp; D&amp;d doesn't have anything like compels &amp; frankly unless your vin diesel most of the group probably doesn't much care about you getting revenge or whatever. Instead of asking if the guy who killed your family is in town, the players engaged in this sort of play should focus on ways to make their goal connect to an inclusive thing like &quot;this seems a lot like the town I remember my family meeting the killer and some of the killer's loyalists back when I was a kid, maybe the veg we are fighting is related to the killer&quot;if the gm says yes&nbsp; they are the player now has all kinds of ties and maybe imperfect memories of the visit(including maybe those &quot;traps&quot;) that could prove useful or sticky so the rest of the group has reason to care.&nbsp; Game systems that support thst type of play tend to assume dynamic characters that grow and include ways to change your goals as you complete them or realize they are obsolete/you irrelevant</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8227297, member: 93670"] The thieves guild & other off screen stuff are quantum when they aren't being observed or interacted with. In games like fate mentioning it like in the example can actually cost(and potentially gain) the player a resource but it gets done anyway because they are already there if at any point in the future their presence there can improve something in an interesting way so why not spice it up by putting them there now so things are interesting today. I think that touches on a lot of the problem I have with some of [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER]'s protagonistic examples. D&d doesn't have anything like compels & frankly unless your vin diesel most of the group probably doesn't much care about you getting revenge or whatever. Instead of asking if the guy who killed your family is in town, the players engaged in this sort of play should focus on ways to make their goal connect to an inclusive thing like "this seems a lot like the town I remember my family meeting the killer and some of the killer's loyalists back when I was a kid, maybe the veg we are fighting is related to the killer"if the gm says yes they are the player now has all kinds of ties and maybe imperfect memories of the visit[i](including maybe those "traps")[/i] that could prove useful or sticky so the rest of the group has reason to care. Game systems that support thst type of play tend to assume dynamic characters that grow and include ways to change your goals as you complete them or realize they are obsolete/you irrelevant [/QUOTE]

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