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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8227812" data-attributes="member: 93670">Its definitely a matter of player skill to achieve them but there are some system differences between 5e and older editions*. In the past there was extremely little room to hang any of that kind of stuff on a character so accomplishing it meant going out of your way to fit it into the GM's world and (if present) campaign story.&nbsp; Even the old phb used words like &quot;ask your gm&quot; &quot;talk with your GM about&quot; &amp; similar.&nbsp; 5e largely carves out a space for that sort of thing where it very much does not belong in ideals bonds &amp;flaws examples and in player facing material largely avoids talking about working with the gm setting up a vicious cycle of badly set expectations often trying to back the gm into a cornered role of providing life support for the story of 4-6 2d Mary &amp; Gary sues.On the other side of things the GM facing stuff is now largely void of any discussion about insight into or even design space to tweak the rules for the game/campaign they want to run or the advice &amp; tools for working with their players to that end.At the end of the day both players and GM need to pick up the skills for all of that from years of older editions or some other system entirely and hope to build the missing bits whole cloth to fit the needs of using the ideals bonds and flaws&nbsp; in the way it's presented as but not designed for and given no guidance or tools to work across the table on it other thsn &quot;yea, no.&quot;* systems with a more shared narrative framework are a different ball of wax</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8227812, member: 93670"] Its definitely a matter of player skill to achieve them but there are some system differences between 5e and older editions*. In the past there was extremely little room to hang any of that kind of stuff on a character so accomplishing it meant going out of your way to fit it into the GM's world and (if present) campaign story. Even the old phb used words like "ask your gm" "talk with your GM about" & similar. 5e largely carves out a space for that sort of thing where it very much does not belong in ideals bonds &flaws examples and in player facing material largely avoids talking about working with the gm setting up a vicious cycle of badly set expectations often trying to back the gm into a cornered role of providing life support for the story of 4-6 2d Mary & Gary sues. On the other side of things the GM facing stuff is now largely void of any discussion about insight into or even design space to tweak the rules for the game/campaign they want to run or the advice & tools for working with their players to that end. At the end of the day both players and GM need to pick up the skills for all of that from years of older editions or some other system entirely and hope to build the missing bits whole cloth to fit the needs of using the ideals bonds and flaws in the way it's presented as but not designed for and given no guidance or tools to work across the table on it other thsn "yea, no." * systems with a more shared narrative framework are a different ball of wax [/QUOTE]

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