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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8232932" data-attributes="member: 85555">The problem isn't play degenerating (and again I really think we shouldn't be adopting this term for RPG stuff, to describe a misalignment of expectations). The problem is you can't always predict the dynamics of a group before you play, language is imperfect for playing gaming conventions etc. Sometimes someone says &quot;I am going to run a sandbox&quot; and they mean something else. That happens. Sometimes someone sets out to run a sandbox but he or she discovers the players are really there for a dramatic story and so the GM shifts gears and adapts, accommodating the tastes of the players. You can do these things in an RPG. You can also get overly rigid about the expectations you are setting &quot;We are going to play sandbox! Nothing more!&quot;. Also, minor point, your description of a sandbox isn't how I would see sandbox play myself (this idea of everything being nailed down before hand: which by the way is one of the reasons why I think there is so much disagreement about the GM's notes thing. There is world building, but you are not pinning things on the map, waiting to be discovered by the PCs: that is why language like world in motion, living adventure are 50% of the discussion in a sandbox). I don't usually use high res maps for the players (the maps are typically for the GM). I may simply not understand the term fully, but I wouldn't describe it as node based either (there are not preset paths I am putting down for players to discover: interactions are more spontaneous).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 8232932, member: 85555"] The problem isn't play degenerating (and again I really think we shouldn't be adopting this term for RPG stuff, to describe a misalignment of expectations). The problem is you can't always predict the dynamics of a group before you play, language is imperfect for playing gaming conventions etc. Sometimes someone says "I am going to run a sandbox" and they mean something else. That happens. Sometimes someone sets out to run a sandbox but he or she discovers the players are really there for a dramatic story and so the GM shifts gears and adapts, accommodating the tastes of the players. You can do these things in an RPG. You can also get overly rigid about the expectations you are setting "We are going to play sandbox! Nothing more!". Also, minor point, your description of a sandbox isn't how I would see sandbox play myself (this idea of everything being nailed down before hand: which by the way is one of the reasons why I think there is so much disagreement about the GM's notes thing. There is world building, but you are not pinning things on the map, waiting to be discovered by the PCs: that is why language like world in motion, living adventure are 50% of the discussion in a sandbox). I don't usually use high res maps for the players (the maps are typically for the GM). I may simply not understand the term fully, but I wouldn't describe it as node based either (there are not preset paths I am putting down for players to discover: interactions are more spontaneous). [/QUOTE]

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