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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8233481" data-attributes="member: 85555">There are two big problems with the 'playing the discover the GM's notes" that go beyond description: it is insulting (which I think just about everyone on my side of the fence has agreed upon) and it is extremely reductive, and fails to capture the nuances of what is really going on. Sure you can simplify and reduce it to that explanation, but as I said, if you do so, and then try to run a game based on that as a principle: it isn't going to be the kind of game me, Maxperson, or virtually anyone whose game you are trying to run, typically run. I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand why folks object to having a style of play they know and enjoy, described as 'playing to discover the GM's notes' both inaccurate and objectionable. And it shouldn't surprise people using that term that they get push back. There was a video about sandbox play by Ron Edwards (who by the way, to be clear, I don't have a problem with at all, I actually like his persona even though I often find myself in strong disagreement with his ideas). He was being a bit facetious, and called it Kittybox. It was obviously meant in humor, I am not 'offended' that he used that language. But I also don't think that kind of terminology is a good way to understand a style objectively, and it is definitely doing to get pushback from people who like sandbox (just like if I called your style "latrine play" you might object to it). Playing to discover what is in the GM's notes is one step above that. It is something people invoke when they feel like they have no agency or real choice in a game session. It is not a description but a judgment. And that bolded bit is why "playing to discover what's in the GM's notes" doesn't really work as a tool of description for any RPG style. This is why I said even adventure paths are not playing to discover what's in the GMs notes. There is always a more living element in play to varying degrees, there are always going to be things coming that weren't in the notes nor were addressed by the notes. The notes themselves are just a tool, not the purpose of play.</blockquote>

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