Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8233600" data-attributes="member: 6696971">[USER=6775890]@BRG[/USER]I'm just going to lead with this.&nbsp; Look at your post.&nbsp; That entire thing is challenging my integrity and impugning my motives.&nbsp; The entire thing.You get to a point in these conversations where you and I nearly always arrive here.&nbsp; I don't do this to you (I don't recall ever doing it actually) but you seem to very often arrive here with me and this is just more de ja vu.&nbsp; Just please throttle it back.Alright, onto talking about TTRPGs.I've puzzled a bit on what the disconnect is here.&nbsp; Why there is this inability to communicate and these hard feelings.&nbsp; Here is what I've come up with.&quot;Play to find out what happens&quot; is (a) not the exclusive priority of play in Dogs, x World games, and Forged in the Dark games.&quot;Play to find out what happens&quot; (b) could trivially be taken offense at.&nbsp; For instance:&quot;Oh so I'm just beholden here to whatever happens with no agency?&nbsp; I'm just strapped in as a passive audience member with no input into 'what happens'?&nbsp; I'm just watching stuff unfold...just finding out?&nbsp; Is that it?&nbsp; Is that what you think is happening in my games?No buddy.&nbsp; I'm MAKING STUFF HAPPEN.&nbsp; And I don't appreciate your disingenuous rhetoric!&quot;So, to address (a) as it pertains to our discussion on GM notes:Obviously &quot;finding out what is in the GM notes/prep&quot; is just the inversion of &quot;playing to find out what happens.&quot;&nbsp; Put another way:&quot;This game is prep-intensive with pre-established, high-resolution setting, adventuring sites, NPCs, puzzles, mysteries...this stuff exists before play...this is the significant bulk of content generation in this game (before play, between sessions, not at the table during play)...uncovering it &gt; engaging it &gt; resolving it &gt; defeating it &gt; reorienting it is the primary point of play.&quot;Contrast with &quot;play to find out what happens&quot;:&quot;This game is so prep light that it nears no prep territory.&nbsp; The setting, adventuring sites, NPCS, puzzles, mysteries emerge in the course of play.&nbsp; Almost all of the content generated happens during play...discovering it &gt; orienting it &gt; engaging it &gt; resolving it &gt; defeating it is the primary point of play.&quot;So a few differences here:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">When content is generated.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">How content is generated.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prep-intensity.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The track as it pertains to content.&nbsp; Discover vs uncover (everyone at the table is discovering it simultaneously in the latter form of play) + REorient at the end of play in the first with orient at the beginning of play in the latter (because there is an orientation already established in the first while the 2nd has no orientation up front and must be oriented during play).</li>
</ul>Just one quick example and then I'm tapping out and someone else can respond/run with this for awhile (I'll be back on tonight most likely):In the first, that chamberlain (yes, back to the chamberlain of yore!) is uncovered.&nbsp; He has already been derived as a piece of content.&nbsp; He already has an orientation.In the second, that chamberlain is discovered.&nbsp; He surely exists (kings have chamberlains of course) but he has to yet to be derived as a piece of content.&nbsp; He has to be oriented right now.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8233600, member: 6696971"] [USER=6775890]@BRG[/USER] I'm just going to lead with this. Look at your post. That entire thing is challenging my integrity and impugning my motives. The entire thing. You get to a point in these conversations where you and I nearly always arrive here. I don't do this to you (I don't recall ever doing it actually) but you seem to very often arrive here with me and this is just more de ja vu. Just please throttle it back. Alright, onto talking about TTRPGs. I've puzzled a bit on what the disconnect is here. Why there is this inability to communicate and these hard feelings. Here is what I've come up with. "Play to find out what happens" is (a) not the exclusive priority of play in Dogs, x World games, and Forged in the Dark games. "Play to find out what happens" (b) could trivially be taken offense at. For instance: "Oh so I'm just beholden here to [I]whatever happens[/I] with no agency? I'm just strapped in as a passive audience member with no input into 'what happens'? I'm just watching stuff unfold...just [I]finding out[/I]? Is that it? Is that what you think is happening in my games? No buddy. I'm MAKING STUFF HAPPEN. And I don't appreciate your disingenuous rhetoric!" So, to address (a) as it pertains to our discussion on GM notes: Obviously "finding out what is in the GM notes/prep" is just the inversion of "playing to find out what happens." Put another way: "This game is prep-intensive with pre-established, high-resolution setting, adventuring sites, NPCs, puzzles, mysteries...this stuff exists before play...this is the significant bulk of content generation in this game (before play, between sessions, not at the table during play)...uncovering it > engaging it > resolving it > defeating it > reorienting it is the primary point of play." Contrast with "play to find out what happens": "This game is so prep light that it nears no prep territory. The setting, adventuring sites, NPCS, puzzles, mysteries emerge in the course of play. Almost all of the content generated happens during play...discovering it > orienting it > engaging it > resolving it > defeating it is the primary point of play." So a few differences here: [LIST] [*]When content is generated. [*]How content is generated. [*]Prep-intensity. [*]The track as it pertains to content. Discover vs uncover (everyone at the table is discovering it simultaneously in the latter form of play) + REorient at the end of play in the first with orient at the beginning of play in the latter (because there is an orientation already established in the first while the 2nd has no orientation up front and must be oriented during play). [/LIST] Just one quick example and then I'm tapping out and someone else can respond/run with this for awhile (I'll be back on tonight most likely): In the first, that chamberlain (yes, back to the chamberlain of yore!) is [B]un[/B]covered. He has already been derived as a piece of content. He already [B]has an orientation.[/B] In the second, that chamberlain is [B]dis[/B]covered. He surely exists (kings have chamberlains of course) but he has to yet to be derived as a piece of content. He [B]has to be oriented right now.[/B] [/QUOTE]

Verification