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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8233616" data-attributes="member: 23751">I'm not saying this about you, but there is at least one poster here who comes across like, &quot;My playstyle is awesomesauce, because it's protagonistic and has lots of agency,&nbsp; you're playstyle is just playing to find out what's in the DM's notes.&quot;&nbsp; Whether that's intentional or not, it comes across as both arrogant and dismissive, which of course gets the other side's dander up.&nbsp; The phrase itself is also somewhat pejorative in and of itself.&nbsp; I disagree with this.&nbsp; When you &quot;Play to....&quot; anything, that's the purpose of your play.&nbsp; If the purpose of our play is not finding out what's in the DM's notes, but rather to accomplish the goals we set for our characters, then &quot;Play to find out what is in the DM's notes.&quot; is wrong.&nbsp;&nbsp; Finding out what is in the DM's note, though, can be and is incidental to the purpose of our play.&nbsp; It's not a true inversion.Again I'm going to disagree.&nbsp; You can play that way, where you are just running around defeating the pre-set challenges as the primary point of play.&nbsp; OR the primary point of play can be accomplishing player set goals within the pre-set world.&nbsp; That breaks your chain anywhere from discovering to resolving, depending on what's going on in the world and what the PCs goals are.When a lot of prep is done on a world or you are using a world like the Forgotten Realms where a lot of prep has already been done for you, the players are going to have a lot of information given to them before even the first session of play.&nbsp; With that information, I will often formulate goals for my PC before the first session ever happens.&nbsp; There may not even be &quot;discovering&quot; as a primary point of my play, let alone the rest of that chain.&nbsp; Or, I may as a player incorporate portions of that chain as a part of my personal goals. Suppose my goal was to become a god by killing one and taking his place.&nbsp; I don't need to uncover who the gods are, but I do need to select one or perhaps a few as potential targets.&nbsp; I'd then need to gain a lot of power and probably true artifacts, so I might as part of my personal goal incorporate some &quot;Discovering -&gt; engaging, etc.&quot; as part of my personal goal of gaining power to kill that god. At no point, though, is that chain the primary point of my game play, and I might have personal goals that require even less of that sort of thing. We are not playing to &quot;Discover what is in the DM's notes.&quot;I understand the differences.&nbsp; The objection comes&nbsp; mainly from the mischaracterization that is inherent in &quot;Play to discover what is in the DM's notes.&quot;&nbsp; We know that there are significant differences and prefer our style of play over the other for various reasons.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8233616, member: 23751"] I'm not saying this about you, but there is at least one poster here who comes across like, "My playstyle is awesomesauce, because it's protagonistic and has lots of agency, you're playstyle is just playing to find out what's in the DM's notes." Whether that's intentional or not, it comes across as both arrogant and dismissive, which of course gets the other side's dander up. The phrase itself is also somewhat pejorative in and of itself. I disagree with this. When you "Play to...." anything, that's the purpose of your play. If the purpose of our play is not finding out what's in the DM's notes, but rather to accomplish the goals we set for our characters, then "Play to find out what is in the DM's notes." is wrong. Finding out what is in the DM's note, though, can be and is incidental to the purpose of our play. It's not a true inversion. Again I'm going to disagree. You can play that way, where you are just running around defeating the pre-set challenges as the primary point of play. OR the primary point of play can be accomplishing player set goals within the pre-set world. That breaks your chain anywhere from discovering to resolving, depending on what's going on in the world and what the PCs goals are. When a lot of prep is done on a world or you are using a world like the Forgotten Realms where a lot of prep has already been done for you, the players are going to have a lot of information given to them before even the first session of play. With that information, I will often formulate goals for my PC before the first session ever happens. There may not even be "discovering" as a primary point of my play, let alone the rest of that chain. Or, I may as a player incorporate portions of that chain as a part of my personal goals. Suppose my goal was to become a god by killing one and taking his place. I don't need to uncover who the gods are, but I do need to select one or perhaps a few as potential targets. I'd then need to gain a lot of power and probably true artifacts, so I might as part of my personal goal incorporate some "Discovering -> engaging, etc." as part of my personal goal of gaining power to kill that god. At no point, though, is that chain the primary point of my game play, and I might have personal goals that require even less of that sort of thing. We are not playing to "Discover what is in the DM's notes." I understand the differences. The objection comes mainly from the mischaracterization that is inherent in "Play to discover what is in the DM's notes." We know that there are significant differences and prefer our style of play over the other for various reasons. [/QUOTE]

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