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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8236093" data-attributes="member: 16814">So Bob didn't ask for a mug of ale, and didn't ask for info on NotBob?&nbsp; This doesn't happen at all until the GM determines the results of the ask that didn't happen?My answers to my rhetorical questions:&nbsp; Of course that happened, and it's in the fiction now, else the GM wouldn't have anything to adjudicate.Yes, this is understood.&nbsp; This is how it works when I run 5e.The complaint was about being in character.&nbsp; How things come to be doesn't affect being in character.&nbsp; The play, in both games, is the same -- the player makes the action declaration, the GM adjudicates the action, the results are presented, and the player can make more action declarations.&nbsp; The difference is in the adjudication.&nbsp; You've moved your complaint for &quot;in character&quot; to &quot;how things are determined.&quot;&nbsp; Yes, in a game where the GM has fully established all of the fiction, this is the case.&nbsp; It's also the case in these other games, if such fiction has been established at the table.&nbsp; There's nothing that says I can't put a map out and say, &quot;this is where the game takes place.&quot;&nbsp; If, at that time, there isn't a discussion about adding a major landmark like a new city to the map, and the table agrees this is the map, then a player cannot later claim a new landmark because that fiction has been established.&nbsp; If, however, there's lots of empty spots on the map, or the claimed city is from far away (and doesn't contradict established fiction), then, sure, why not?&nbsp; I think you're misunderstanding that there are constraints on the player introduction of material just as there are on the GM's introduction of material -- they must be consistent with established fiction and genre appropriate (no laser pistols in a medieval romance, for instance).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8236093, member: 16814"] So Bob didn't ask for a mug of ale, and didn't ask for info on NotBob? This doesn't happen at all until the GM determines the results of the ask that didn't happen? My answers to my rhetorical questions: Of course that happened, and it's in the fiction now, else the GM wouldn't have anything to adjudicate. Yes, this is understood. This is how it works when I run 5e. The complaint was about being in character. How things come to be doesn't affect being in character. The play, in both games, is the same -- the player makes the action declaration, the GM adjudicates the action, the results are presented, and the player can make more action declarations. The difference is in the adjudication. You've moved your complaint for "in character" to "how things are determined." Yes, in a game where the GM has fully established all of the fiction, this is the case. It's also the case in these other games, if such fiction has been established at the table. There's nothing that says I can't put a map out and say, "this is where the game takes place." If, at that time, there isn't a discussion about adding a major landmark like a new city to the map, and the table agrees this is the map, then a player cannot later claim a new landmark because that fiction has been established. If, however, there's lots of empty spots on the map, or the claimed city is from far away (and doesn't contradict established fiction), then, sure, why not? I think you're misunderstanding that there are constraints on the player introduction of material just as there are on the GM's introduction of material -- they must be consistent with established fiction and genre appropriate (no laser pistols in a medieval romance, for instance). [/QUOTE]

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