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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8236427" data-attributes="member: 42582">There is some truth to this claim.[USER=6698278]@Emerikol[/USER], in the second of these quoted passages you say that in your preferred sandbox game the PCs change the world. Now changing the world is a metaphor - what is literally happening is that fiction is being created. You even describe it yourself as contributing to the fiction.Who is playing the PCs? Presumably the players. So you have the players authoring fiction. Creating fiction. Contributing to the fiction. Yet presumably, in your sandbox game, they are doing this while also acting in character.There are two things here:* introducing new stuff that isn't in the purview of a character is not a synonym for the player authoring/creating/contributing to the shared fiction; * there are many parts of a setting that are within the purview of a character, assuming the character has the normal sensory and cognitive capacities of a person.[USER=6993955]@Fenris-77[/USER] has given an example that illustrates the second point: a character will know where s/he came from, who his/her family are, etc and so the player playing in character and talking about that stuff does not fall outside of the purview of the character.I suspect you first sentence in the first of these two quotes is exaggerated - I'd be really surprised if in your sandbox game you've never filled out character inventory simply by reference to equipment lists in the PHB and gold piece tallies on the PC sheet, without actually playing your character as a shopper purchasing goods from vendors played by the GM.The rest of these quotes - you are the character - describes my preferred approach to play. The most visceral game I personally know of for this sort of RPGing is Burning Wheel.This is not an accurate description of any RPG that I GM. If you want to know how they play, I'd encourage you to read some of my actual play posts.[USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER]'s description of action declaration and action resolution from BitD play is also close enough to my play experience. Notice how there is no hint of cooperatively writing a story. What there is is resolution of action declarations using processes that DO NOT take GM's pre-prepared notes as an input.I don't agree with your description, here, of character viewpoint. Having all my character's cognitive access to his/her life, his/her knowledge, his/her world mediated via GM description is radically non-immersive. Just to give a really clear example: my PC is in his/her home town. The GM narrates a NPC. If I have to ask the GM things like Do I know this person? Do I love this person? Did we part on good or bad terms last time we met? that is not immersive to me. It actually creates a radical dissociation from the fiction, and makes me feel like my PC is a space alien or visitor from another world.</blockquote>

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