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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8236587" data-attributes="member: 85555">You pointed to games where players can contribute to the setting/fiction out of character as an alternative to 'discovering the GM's notes&quot;. I am not particularly invested in the parameters of those kinds of games, I am just going by what you and others are asserting. Though I will say, pre-authored material does factor into a game like Hillfolk based on my experience playing it, and that can be a reason to invoke rules that constrain players framing scenes certain ways. No expert in that game, but I've played it a bit. Either way, I pointed out the GM isn't always working from notes, the GM is often extrapolating, inventing whole cloth, even ignoring or rejecting note content, because the aim is what is imagined in the GM's&nbsp; mind as the world, not what is one the page in the notes. You maintained this is still just the notes. I am saying why is all this magically discovering the GM's notes, yet when players engage in these things, it is creating fiction? By the way I am not saying players aren't creating fiction when they do that. But I think it would be highly reductive to say players are discovering one another's notes, just as it is highly reductive to say players are discovering the GMs notes in the case of the sort of sandbox people are describing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 8236587, member: 85555"] You pointed to games where players can contribute to the setting/fiction out of character as an alternative to 'discovering the GM's notes". I am not particularly invested in the parameters of those kinds of games, I am just going by what you and others are asserting. Though I will say, pre-authored material does factor into a game like Hillfolk based on my experience playing it, and that can be a reason to invoke rules that constrain players framing scenes certain ways. No expert in that game, but I've played it a bit. Either way, I pointed out the GM isn't always working from notes, the GM is often extrapolating, inventing whole cloth, even ignoring or rejecting note content, because the aim is what is imagined in the GM's mind as the world, not what is one the page in the notes. You maintained this is still just the notes. I am saying why is all this magically discovering the GM's notes, yet when players engage in these things, it is creating fiction? By the way I am not saying players aren't creating fiction when they do that. But I think it would be highly reductive to say players are discovering one another's notes, just as it is highly reductive to say players are discovering the GMs notes in the case of the sort of sandbox people are describing. [/QUOTE]

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