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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8236680" data-attributes="member: 85555">I would call it the GM's fictional world. But they don't even use just the term notes in that paragraph. They say "notes or imagination" it is clearly pointing to a much larger idea than just notes (and our objection to calling it playing to discover the GM's notes is it is reductive because it leaves out elements like the GM's imagination, like the role of synergy between players pushing on the setting, NPCs pushing back, and things organically developing). No one is contesting there is an asymmetry of power in that the GM ultimately gets to decide what is and is not in the setting (though he or she often has to bow to the dice and other external factors). But again, I think you are painting an extremely simplistic picture that overlooks and undervalues the role of PCs pushing against the setting, asking questions about it, etc. They might not have the power to invent things whole cloth but they have the power to force the GM to invent, and to work using the power of their characters to exert will on the setting and shape it through their characters actions, interactions, etc; often leaving a fairly important legacy in the setting itself. And this isn't something the GM can simply deny them on a whim. The promise of sandbox is if you want to try it, I have to fairly adjudicate it. In terms of what's in the treasure chest, sure in some instances there is going to be something the GM has conceived of, and the contents of that thing will be set down in advance (sometimes in notes, sometimes as a firm decision the GM makes when the chest is introduced, etc). That is an important part of creating a sense of a world external to the characters. I do this even when I am improvising (make very clear decisions in my head about 'what's in the box' so there is a consistent world and so their choices matter----and sometimes I will note these things down and show them to the players after just to make clear a choice they made mattered and dispel any possibility of illusionism). At the same time, there are all kinds of instances where, even if the players don't have narrative power, their ability to question and prod is going to still help shape things. It certainly isn't the same as some of the stuff you have been advocating, and I wouldn't argue otherwise (especially since a typical sandbox is built on the premise of discovering a world and doing so through your character). But it isn't just dead notes on a page. Players being able to suddenly veer off in some direction or decide to pay off the local constables to arrest the guy who hired them for the adventure so they can take over his fighter pits, this is the sort of synergy that people were pointing to. And extrapolation from the notes on this is important and different from notes themselves. I may have notes on the fighter pits (possibly though they were introduced as improvised setting details during play), but once the players pull a move like that, a whole host of questions I have probably not asked about them need to be answered, and I need to start having NPCs reacting in believable, logical and human ways to what they are doing. I don't see that as notes. I see that as the 'living' part of living world.</blockquote>

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