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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8236691" data-attributes="member: 23751">I bolded the important part of that.&nbsp; He is differentiating between notes and imagination(improv), while you are trying to merge them and are getting a lot of trouble for it. They aren't the same thing and one word isn't going to be accurate for both.So no, it is still not an accurate portrayal as we've been telling and demonstrating to you for pages and pages now.&nbsp; The goal of play is still not focused on the DM's concepts.&nbsp; Also, there are multiple ways to play a Sandbox, some of which don't involve knowing all the details of every dungeon like that.&nbsp; Sometimes the DM may not have considered that and may just give it a random roll to see if a secret door is there.&nbsp; You're trying to force several different ways of playing a Sandbox into one narrow, incorrect phrase.In that one example sure, but by and large the players have considerably more input.&nbsp; &quot;Verging&quot; is very much an incorrect portrayal of the overall disparity.&nbsp; The vast majority of inputs are along the lines of, &quot;I go up to the bartender and punch him in the face,&quot; followed by the DM declaring in the fiction something that responds to that.&nbsp; Or perhaps, &quot;I rifle through the Baron's desk looking for the missing deed,&quot; followed by the DM declaring something in the fiction that responds to that.&nbsp; Many times, the response is less than the player input, even though the DM does have final say.If I had to guess,&nbsp; I'd say that the percentage was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60/40 or 65/35 in favor of the DM.&nbsp; Still significant, but hardly &quot;verging on.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8236691, member: 23751"] I bolded the important part of that. He is differentiating between notes and imagination(improv), while you are trying to merge them and are getting a lot of trouble for it. They aren't the same thing and one word isn't going to be accurate for both. So no, it is still not an accurate portrayal as we've been telling and demonstrating to you for pages and pages now. The goal of play is still not focused on the DM's concepts. Also, there are multiple ways to play a Sandbox, some of which don't involve knowing all the details of every dungeon like that. Sometimes the DM may not have considered that and may just give it a random roll to see if a secret door is there. You're trying to force several different ways of playing a Sandbox into one narrow, incorrect phrase. In that one example sure, but by and large the players have considerably more input. "Verging" is very much an incorrect portrayal of the overall disparity. The vast majority of inputs are along the lines of, "I go up to the bartender and punch him in the face," followed by the DM declaring in the fiction something that responds to that. Or perhaps, "I rifle through the Baron's desk looking for the missing deed," followed by the DM declaring something in the fiction that responds to that. Many times, the response is less than the player input, even though the DM does have final say. If I had to guess, I'd say that the percentage was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60/40 or 65/35 in favor of the DM. Still significant, but hardly "verging on." [/QUOTE]

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