Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What is the point of GM's notes?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 8237124" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>The big problem for me is what I've bolded in the snippet above---namely, it's almost impossible for me as a GM, even with the absolute best intentions, to remain fully neutral/impartial/fair within all of the parameters available. Whether it be scene framing, adjudicating action, prefabrication of world elements, challenge and combat encounter creation, etc., I always find that inevitably some sort of bias creeps into my decisions. </p><p></p><p>Most of the time, that bias is in favor of the players, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's stuff that I just think, "Man, I really <em>really really</em> want the players to see or experience X, because that would be sooooo cool!"</p><p></p><p>And suddenly that desire to have the player experience X becomes this hidden seed that pushes the action. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The bolded part here is the problematic component. You keep talking about "the world" as if it operates in some wholly independent sphere of the shared fiction, as if it is possessed of some immutable, objective properties of existence separate from other components of the imagined fiction.</p><p></p><p>This is the whole crux of the argument around how and what player-facing game mechanics are designed to address---that there is no "world," there are only conceptions of the fiction in question. Saying that it's all part of the grand, overarching "natural, simulated world" doesn't give those conceptions any additional weight or gravitas.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, this was one of, if not <em>the </em>biggest mental hurdle for me to get over in regards to knowing how to approach player facing mechanics. Because the "game world" simply <em>had</em> to be this independent construction, operating under its own parameters. How else could anyone know anything about anything if there wasn't an assumed, "fully realized" game world?</p><p></p><p>Until it finally clicked that there is no "world," there are only <em>conceptions of the fiction</em>. Any given conception exists in one of two states---1) something that is already established as true within the fiction state, and 2) things that are proposed to be true, but not yet known to be true (and potentially may end up being false).</p><p></p><p>By default, D&D assumes that a GM's notes / prefabrications / headcanon are conceptions that fall into Category 1 --- "Something already established as true within the fiction," until/unless the GM deems otherwise. The fact that the players don't know about the overwhelming majority of prefabricated "truths" is irrelevant, they're still considered "truth" for the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Category 2 conceptions are generally propositions from the players---"I kill the orc." This isn't known to be true until the game plays out, and the fiction state resolves. It may end up being true---and may end up being false, if the player's dice perform badly, or some other interposition happens first (e.g., the orc successfully runs away or the character trips and falls down).</p><p></p><p>Category 2 conceptions/propositions can be negated. For example, a player can say something as simple as, "Bob the Fighter walks across the room to head toward NotBob the Vile's private dining area." But this can be rendered untrue in any number of ways, e.g.:</p><p></p><p>Player 2: Joe the Wizard grabs Bob the Fighter's arm as soon as he stands up. [in character] 'I don't think you want to mess with NotBob right now, friend. He'll probably kill you.'</p><p></p><p>Or, </p><p></p><p>GM: You go to walk across the room, but the barmaid slips, crashes a tray of empty flagons to the floor, and falls into your arms in disheveled confusion.</p><p></p><p>In both cases, Bob the Fighter has not, in fact, walked across the room to NotBob's private dining area. At least not until the interposed propositions are either accepted or rejected as truth.</p><p></p><p>RPG gameplay is really nothing more than Category 2 conceptions/propositions steadily moving to Category 1---it was unknown if the conception is true, and now it is known to be true or not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The bolded portion of your quote cannot logically follow from the sentences that precede it. A <em>response</em> is necessarily a <em>decision</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 8237124, member: 85870"] The big problem for me is what I've bolded in the snippet above---namely, it's almost impossible for me as a GM, even with the absolute best intentions, to remain fully neutral/impartial/fair within all of the parameters available. Whether it be scene framing, adjudicating action, prefabrication of world elements, challenge and combat encounter creation, etc., I always find that inevitably some sort of bias creeps into my decisions. Most of the time, that bias is in favor of the players, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's stuff that I just think, "Man, I really [I]really really[/I] want the players to see or experience X, because that would be sooooo cool!" And suddenly that desire to have the player experience X becomes this hidden seed that pushes the action. The bolded part here is the problematic component. You keep talking about "the world" as if it operates in some wholly independent sphere of the shared fiction, as if it is possessed of some immutable, objective properties of existence separate from other components of the imagined fiction. This is the whole crux of the argument around how and what player-facing game mechanics are designed to address---that there is no "world," there are only conceptions of the fiction in question. Saying that it's all part of the grand, overarching "natural, simulated world" doesn't give those conceptions any additional weight or gravitas. Honestly, this was one of, if not [I]the [/I]biggest mental hurdle for me to get over in regards to knowing how to approach player facing mechanics. Because the "game world" simply [I]had[/I] to be this independent construction, operating under its own parameters. How else could anyone know anything about anything if there wasn't an assumed, "fully realized" game world? Until it finally clicked that there is no "world," there are only [I]conceptions of the fiction[/I].[I] [/I]Any given conception exists in one of two states---1) something that is already established as true within the fiction state, and 2) things that are proposed to be true, but not yet known to be true (and potentially may end up being false). By default, D&D assumes that a GM's notes / prefabrications / headcanon are conceptions that fall into Category 1 --- "Something already established as true within the fiction," until/unless the GM deems otherwise. The fact that the players don't know about the overwhelming majority of prefabricated "truths" is irrelevant, they're still considered "truth" for the fiction. Category 2 conceptions are generally propositions from the players---"I kill the orc." This isn't known to be true until the game plays out, and the fiction state resolves. It may end up being true---and may end up being false, if the player's dice perform badly, or some other interposition happens first (e.g., the orc successfully runs away or the character trips and falls down). Category 2 conceptions/propositions can be negated. For example, a player can say something as simple as, "Bob the Fighter walks across the room to head toward NotBob the Vile's private dining area." But this can be rendered untrue in any number of ways, e.g.: Player 2: Joe the Wizard grabs Bob the Fighter's arm as soon as he stands up. [in character] 'I don't think you want to mess with NotBob right now, friend. He'll probably kill you.' Or, GM: You go to walk across the room, but the barmaid slips, crashes a tray of empty flagons to the floor, and falls into your arms in disheveled confusion. In both cases, Bob the Fighter has not, in fact, walked across the room to NotBob's private dining area. At least not until the interposed propositions are either accepted or rejected as truth. RPG gameplay is really nothing more than Category 2 conceptions/propositions steadily moving to Category 1---it was unknown if the conception is true, and now it is known to be true or not. The bolded portion of your quote cannot logically follow from the sentences that precede it. A [I]response[/I] is necessarily a [I]decision[/I]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What is the point of GM's notes?
Top