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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8242672" data-attributes="member: 16586">I feel should clarify my desires here. I suspect it will make matters worse, but it reflects my true desires. When I say I want to play with people who try to get better I mean at the specific game we are playing. Not some overly precious generalized notion of what roleplaying is. I mean if we are playing Burning Wheel try to be the best Burning Wheel player you can. If we are playing old school D&amp;D try to be the best at that you can. That includes learning the rules, what the game expects, and embracing those expectations. It's why I like games with strong reward systems.If I'm playing poker with friends I want to win because I played my best against their best. If I'm playing Magic same damn thing. In cooperative play I have an expectation that everyone will contribute and give it their all as best as they are able to.You will probably say something along the lines of most gamers are not like me. So what? I'm just here to offer my perspective on what I think makes for the best gaming. People can make their own judgments. &quot;Most gamers&quot; do not need you to defend their interests. You do not speak for them anymore than I do. Why not just offer your own perspective without trying to act as some arbiter for the unwashed masses?I personally would prefer to have a frank discussion of actual play techniques and feel like I often provide that. In the past when I have attempted to do so I often receive pushback (often from you personally). Do not get me wrong here. No one has the right to expect no pushback. I do think some of the pushback is overly precious about language use. I don't expect you to completely abandon the framework you to use to understand RPGs in order to have a discussion with me. I do not understand why you expect me to.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8242672, member: 16586"] I feel should clarify my desires here. I suspect it will make matters worse, but it reflects my true desires. When I say I want to play with people who try to get better I mean at the specific game we are playing. Not some overly precious generalized notion of what roleplaying is. I mean if we are playing Burning Wheel try to be the best Burning Wheel player you can. If we are playing old school D&D try to be the best at that you can. That includes learning the rules, what the game expects, and embracing those expectations. It's why I like games with strong reward systems. If I'm playing poker with friends I want to win because I played my best against their best. If I'm playing Magic same damn thing. In cooperative play I have an expectation that everyone will contribute and give it their all as best as they are able to. You will probably say something along the lines of most gamers are not like me. So what? I'm just here to offer my perspective on what I think makes for the best gaming. People can make their own judgments. "Most gamers" do not need you to defend their interests. You do not speak for them anymore than I do. Why not just offer your own perspective without trying to act as some arbiter for the unwashed masses? I personally would prefer to have a frank discussion of actual play techniques and feel like I often provide that. In the past when I have attempted to do so I often receive pushback (often from you personally). Do not get me wrong here. No one has the right to expect no pushback. I do think some of the pushback is overly precious about language use. I don't expect you to completely abandon the framework you to use to understand RPGs in order to have a discussion with me. I do not understand why you expect me to. [/QUOTE]

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