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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8244463" data-attributes="member: 85555">Again Pemerton, no one is saying the process of players say what they do, GM says what they see what happens isn't part of it. And no one is denying that speech is largely how we communicate when we play these games. What I am saying is you are zooming in on one increment, in order to disprove the larger existence of something like the living world. You are too zoomed in, and not seeing all the other elements we have been pointing to. It is like describing an elephant based on just focusing on its feet. Yes I must admit elephants have feet. I won't accept an argument though that claims elephants are feet. That fundamental act involves a lot more than me simply telling players what they see. And again we have pointed to what those things are (people have brought up things like the fact that the GM can't simply say whatever he wants, there are constraints, that often dice were involved in determining what I say, that what I say is often a result of the players prodding, asking or trying to do something that I had no idea would arise before-----and that what I say is constantly referring back to this model of the setting, and tracking what is going on in that setting with the PCs, and NPCs).but more than that, please explain to me what the point is of trying to get us to accept this is the fundamental act. I have a suspicion the reason is because you want to show us that the imagined living world isn't real, that all that matters is the fiction because all there is is this fundamental interaction. If so, please state it clearly so we can move to the actual debate. Or if not, please state why you think your conclusion is important. I am not saying I accept your conclusion but I think rather than continue to batter each other back and forth over  a point we just don't see eye to eye on, it would be better to delve into what the real issue is behind you advancing this premise.EDIT: Just want to note that the video of me GMing, wasn't a living world sandbox session. It was a playtest of a straight forward dungeon crawl, with a bit of light 'living adventure' thrown in, but mostly it was just run as a standard crawl as I was trying to playtest something. The video in which I was a player, I believe was a sandbox with training wheels session that Rob Conley ran (I could be wrong on that, he would know, but it was a limited scenario: we weren't exploring the full map of the setting or anything in that).</blockquote>

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