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What is the point of GM's notes?
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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 8248186" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>So if at some point I were to attempt a GM-driven, largely prefabricated "living world" sandbox, here's the big dilemma I now face.</p><p></p><p>I mentioned before, the last time I ran a "living world," about 60% of the way through (somewhere around session 18 or 19 out of 32), the main conceit of a "living world" had largely collapsed. I was still doing weekly prep, still doing extrapolations and "mental imaging" of how background events were playing out, and what was happening outside the view of the players.</p><p></p><p>But it had increasingly become impossible to give characters the kind of freedom I wanted in pursuing goals. Essentially, to keep any semblance of direction, I had to pre-populate hooks with solutions that felt very much like I was reducing player agency to "mother-may-I" style play.</p><p></p><p>And at one point sometime around session 27 or 28, one of players sort of called me on it . . . not in an unfriendly or demeaning way, but something along the lines of, "You're kind of just setting up the dominoes for us to knock them down, aren't you?"---an observation/recognition that there was a lot of string pulling going on behind the screen.</p><p></p><p>And all I could do was just shrug and sheepishly plead "guilty as charged." And it's not even that the players weren't enjoying themselves, it's that it felt unsatisfying to <em>me</em>.</p><p></p><p>The other element that broke down for me was the realization that at a certain point, it became very difficult to find appropriate extrapolations that didn't devolve into "GM witch hunt" against the characters. And this became a point of "immersion breaking" for me as a GM running my own "living world." Because after a certain point, if the villains in the world are as ruthless and relentless as I imagined them to be, eventually they're going to stop "messing around" and really, really get after the PCs.</p><p></p><p>As awesome as I wanted the party to be within the game world, at a certain point I had to ask myself, "If the party had really messed up Evil Villain X's plans as much as has transpired, wouldn't Villain X just go full assassin mode and be done with it?"</p><p></p><p>Like, at a certain point, any plausible extrapolation included something along the lines of, "Enough with sending these stupid level 3 rogue assassins. Isn't it time for Villain X to break out her cadre of a dozen level 19 rogue/assassin/bladesinger/clerics, level-adjusted +3 half-abyssal template assassins and be done with it?" (Savage Worlds doesn't have "levels" per se, but just providing a comparison for context.)</p><p></p><p>But then that feels sucky as well. Because sending those types of enemies after the players feels punitive and mean-spirited and un-fun. But without doing that, the conceit of the "living world" became straight up broken for me---I was now sacrificing "living world" integrity just to allow the players to keep playing.</p><p></p><p>*Edit---one more thing I thought of. Another problem with extrapolation became the "ever-expanding universe" dilemma, where even if I had set up a specific enemy "front," the question always kept coming up, "Well, is is the <em>real</em> end of the line? Or is there even another, more powerful villain above them?" And this starts to play into my own GM psychology, because on a certain level, you don't want certain NPCs / factions to be the end of the road. Isn't it more interesting to have certain threads keep going? But there was no tool or technique other than just my own judgement to say, "Nope, this really is the end of the line for this thread," or, "Yep, there's another strand to this thread that goes even farther."</p><p></p><p>And I don't particularly see a solution to these problems by applying any of the "living world" techniques espoused so far.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do even more prep.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do even more extrapolations until you get it "just right."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do NPC psyche/motivation "deep dives."</li> </ul><p></p><p>So I ask the proponents of "living world" play --- how do you solve these problems without turning to player-facing tools and techniques?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Separate, unrelated note:</p><p></p><p>There's definitely some bleed/overlap between the last 2 pages of this thread and the immersion/"playing as my character" thread. It may be more appropriate to say this there, but just an observation:</p><p></p><p>For "living world" sandbox play, there seems to be a tacit, unspoken line item in the group social contract that might read something like, "Though your character is free to explore the game world through any means at their disposal, there is no guarantee that any given prefabricated component / session element / quest / NPC / world event / content will directly address any particular character goal / motivation / dramatic need. Please set your expectations accordingly."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 8248186, member: 85870"] So if at some point I were to attempt a GM-driven, largely prefabricated "living world" sandbox, here's the big dilemma I now face. I mentioned before, the last time I ran a "living world," about 60% of the way through (somewhere around session 18 or 19 out of 32), the main conceit of a "living world" had largely collapsed. I was still doing weekly prep, still doing extrapolations and "mental imaging" of how background events were playing out, and what was happening outside the view of the players. But it had increasingly become impossible to give characters the kind of freedom I wanted in pursuing goals. Essentially, to keep any semblance of direction, I had to pre-populate hooks with solutions that felt very much like I was reducing player agency to "mother-may-I" style play. And at one point sometime around session 27 or 28, one of players sort of called me on it . . . not in an unfriendly or demeaning way, but something along the lines of, "You're kind of just setting up the dominoes for us to knock them down, aren't you?"---an observation/recognition that there was a lot of string pulling going on behind the screen. And all I could do was just shrug and sheepishly plead "guilty as charged." And it's not even that the players weren't enjoying themselves, it's that it felt unsatisfying to [I]me[/I]. The other element that broke down for me was the realization that at a certain point, it became very difficult to find appropriate extrapolations that didn't devolve into "GM witch hunt" against the characters. And this became a point of "immersion breaking" for me as a GM running my own "living world." Because after a certain point, if the villains in the world are as ruthless and relentless as I imagined them to be, eventually they're going to stop "messing around" and really, really get after the PCs. As awesome as I wanted the party to be within the game world, at a certain point I had to ask myself, "If the party had really messed up Evil Villain X's plans as much as has transpired, wouldn't Villain X just go full assassin mode and be done with it?" Like, at a certain point, any plausible extrapolation included something along the lines of, "Enough with sending these stupid level 3 rogue assassins. Isn't it time for Villain X to break out her cadre of a dozen level 19 rogue/assassin/bladesinger/clerics, level-adjusted +3 half-abyssal template assassins and be done with it?" (Savage Worlds doesn't have "levels" per se, but just providing a comparison for context.) But then that feels sucky as well. Because sending those types of enemies after the players feels punitive and mean-spirited and un-fun. But without doing that, the conceit of the "living world" became straight up broken for me---I was now sacrificing "living world" integrity just to allow the players to keep playing. *Edit---one more thing I thought of. Another problem with extrapolation became the "ever-expanding universe" dilemma, where even if I had set up a specific enemy "front," the question always kept coming up, "Well, is is the [I]real[/I] end of the line? Or is there even another, more powerful villain above them?" And this starts to play into my own GM psychology, because on a certain level, you don't want certain NPCs / factions to be the end of the road. Isn't it more interesting to have certain threads keep going? But there was no tool or technique other than just my own judgement to say, "Nope, this really is the end of the line for this thread," or, "Yep, there's another strand to this thread that goes even farther." And I don't particularly see a solution to these problems by applying any of the "living world" techniques espoused so far. [LIST] [*]Do even more prep. [*]Do even more extrapolations until you get it "just right." [*]Do NPC psyche/motivation "deep dives." [/LIST] So I ask the proponents of "living world" play --- how do you solve these problems without turning to player-facing tools and techniques? Separate, unrelated note: There's definitely some bleed/overlap between the last 2 pages of this thread and the immersion/"playing as my character" thread. It may be more appropriate to say this there, but just an observation: For "living world" sandbox play, there seems to be a tacit, unspoken line item in the group social contract that might read something like, "Though your character is free to explore the game world through any means at their disposal, there is no guarantee that any given prefabricated component / session element / quest / NPC / world event / content will directly address any particular character goal / motivation / dramatic need. Please set your expectations accordingly." [/QUOTE]
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