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What is the Ranger to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7633249" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>But you'd still have to either create new features to replace them, or beef up what's left, which requires even more design work and balancing than simply beefing up the weakest links that are thematically appropriate but don't do their job.</p><p></p><p> I will always (correctly) posit that people who don't even like a concept to begin with, aren't necessary to consult in determining how to execute it. I don't need to be part of a design discussion on the cleric, because I think it's a garbage class that shouldn't even exist. If I was a dnd designer, I would advise Mike and Jeremy to ignore my input on the class, unless they randomly catch me in a good mood toward a subclass of it or something and I'm jacked up about it. Because my input isn't as important as those on the team who love clerics. I'm not the cleric's target audience. </p><p></p><p>Now, that doesn't mean I don't value your opinion in general, but it does mean that your not seeing the ranger's identity or why the 4e ranger (a striker, which you don't see the appeal of in general by your own admission) is appealing to people, isn't a surprise to me, and doesn't really impact my view of the discussion much. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, the 4e ranger is a really good martial skirmishing striker. They make a great foil to the lighter less durable rogue, they're fun to play, they just aren't actually a ranger until essentials came out and gave them primal utility powers and let them take a feat to get wilderness knacks. </p><p></p><p>I certainly don't expect people who actually like the fighter to care about my dislike of it. I do like most of it's subclasses, though, and would like the class if you got your subclass at level 1, so you're just playing a battle master or eldritch knight, and can ignore the word fighter entirely when looking for inspiration within your class. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree! And I think that the only deficit for most people who want the ranger in the game is execution, and that their play experience should be the priority of any change or alternate feature for the class.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7633249, member: 6704184"] But you'd still have to either create new features to replace them, or beef up what's left, which requires even more design work and balancing than simply beefing up the weakest links that are thematically appropriate but don't do their job. I will always (correctly) posit that people who don't even like a concept to begin with, aren't necessary to consult in determining how to execute it. I don't need to be part of a design discussion on the cleric, because I think it's a garbage class that shouldn't even exist. If I was a dnd designer, I would advise Mike and Jeremy to ignore my input on the class, unless they randomly catch me in a good mood toward a subclass of it or something and I'm jacked up about it. Because my input isn't as important as those on the team who love clerics. I'm not the cleric's target audience. Now, that doesn't mean I don't value your opinion in general, but it does mean that your not seeing the ranger's identity or why the 4e ranger (a striker, which you don't see the appeal of in general by your own admission) is appealing to people, isn't a surprise to me, and doesn't really impact my view of the discussion much. Anyway, the 4e ranger is a really good martial skirmishing striker. They make a great foil to the lighter less durable rogue, they're fun to play, they just aren't actually a ranger until essentials came out and gave them primal utility powers and let them take a feat to get wilderness knacks. I certainly don't expect people who actually like the fighter to care about my dislike of it. I do like most of it's subclasses, though, and would like the class if you got your subclass at level 1, so you're just playing a battle master or eldritch knight, and can ignore the word fighter entirely when looking for inspiration within your class. I agree! And I think that the only deficit for most people who want the ranger in the game is execution, and that their play experience should be the priority of any change or alternate feature for the class. [/QUOTE]
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