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What is the Ranger to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 7634097" data-attributes="member: 6788736"><p>Yes they clearly were.</p><p></p><p>I'll start with something like Ranger 5 + Scout Rogue 3. Its better than a Ranger at being a Ranger. </p><p></p><p>You lose an ASI and a single spell of 2nd level per long rest (and 2 extra spells known). 3 HP, some useless exploration pillar abilities and the moderately useful Defensive tactics.</p><p></p><p>In exchange, you gain 3 extra skills known, Expertise in 4 of your skills (including Nature and Survival, and probably Stealth and Perception), cunning action, +2d6 sneak attack damage every single round, and Skirmish.</p><p></p><p>Or take 3 levels of BM and gain 4 sup dice per short rest, action surge, a second fighting style for a fixed +1 to AC, get your 3 HP back, and get some short rest healing with Second Wind.</p><p></p><p>Both of those options are far better than an extra 2nd level spell per day, and defensive tactics.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It gets 3rd level <em>slots </em>at 8th level (one ahead of the Ranger). </p><p></p><p>At 11th level it has 4th level slots, 3rd level spells known. At 11th level it takes Fireball and one other. It's now got an AoE that deals as much damage as the Ranger needs to wait till 17th level to get.</p><p></p><p>I wouldnt bother seeing as it has Hypnotic pattern at this level, but hey.</p><p></p><p>Its also tossing out a few cutting words per short rest, has expertise in its ranger skills, jack of all trades and song of rest and so forth of course.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>It takes Haste as it's other magical secrets, or Magic Weapon, or a Paladin Smite spell to make up for the lack of the offensive feature.</p><p></p><p>At 15th level it can take Double arrows per bonus action spell (2 ahead of the Ranger).Not that it needs it with Polymorph, animate objects and similar being online at this level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I suggested a 'junk build' (slapping Lore Bard on Ranger) to show just how bad Ranger is. When I can pick a random class that has nothing to do with rangering, uses a totally different Stat and ranger better than the ranger with that class, something is wrong with the Ranger.</p><p></p><p>You seem to think this is me demonstrating how awesome I am at 'bulding PCs'. It's not; it's me showing you how the core Ranger sucks so bad, you can select <em>literally any other class</em> from 5th level and take levels in that class, and be better than the Ranger.</p><p></p><p>(Noteable exception being the XgTE Ranger subclasses; they provide some uber powerful class features, that I might even consider wading through several levels of utter trash to get).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Flamestrike, post: 7634097, member: 6788736"] Yes they clearly were. I'll start with something like Ranger 5 + Scout Rogue 3. Its better than a Ranger at being a Ranger. You lose an ASI and a single spell of 2nd level per long rest (and 2 extra spells known). 3 HP, some useless exploration pillar abilities and the moderately useful Defensive tactics. In exchange, you gain 3 extra skills known, Expertise in 4 of your skills (including Nature and Survival, and probably Stealth and Perception), cunning action, +2d6 sneak attack damage every single round, and Skirmish. Or take 3 levels of BM and gain 4 sup dice per short rest, action surge, a second fighting style for a fixed +1 to AC, get your 3 HP back, and get some short rest healing with Second Wind. Both of those options are far better than an extra 2nd level spell per day, and defensive tactics. It gets 3rd level [I]slots [/I]at 8th level (one ahead of the Ranger). At 11th level it has 4th level slots, 3rd level spells known. At 11th level it takes Fireball and one other. It's now got an AoE that deals as much damage as the Ranger needs to wait till 17th level to get. I wouldnt bother seeing as it has Hypnotic pattern at this level, but hey. Its also tossing out a few cutting words per short rest, has expertise in its ranger skills, jack of all trades and song of rest and so forth of course. It takes Haste as it's other magical secrets, or Magic Weapon, or a Paladin Smite spell to make up for the lack of the offensive feature. At 15th level it can take Double arrows per bonus action spell (2 ahead of the Ranger).Not that it needs it with Polymorph, animate objects and similar being online at this level. I suggested a 'junk build' (slapping Lore Bard on Ranger) to show just how bad Ranger is. When I can pick a random class that has nothing to do with rangering, uses a totally different Stat and ranger better than the ranger with that class, something is wrong with the Ranger. You seem to think this is me demonstrating how awesome I am at 'bulding PCs'. It's not; it's me showing you how the core Ranger sucks so bad, you can select [I]literally any other class[/I] from 5th level and take levels in that class, and be better than the Ranger. (Noteable exception being the XgTE Ranger subclasses; they provide some uber powerful class features, that I might even consider wading through several levels of utter trash to get). [/QUOTE]
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