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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 9358381" data-attributes="member: 92511">Do you mean "for a new edition," as to be "in the PHB," as in initial publication/release? I am inclined to think 13 is your very most/top for an initial outing. I would put your "base minimum" at 7 or 8. But I think a list of 13 is probably the best.Gives you enough for people to say "Oo! Look at all the options/possibilities," including hopefully multiple avenues for various different character types, without getting into repetitive or redundant character types/classes. More than that and it'll become unwieldy and daunting for attracting "new" players - at least. If not simply impractical from a material/printing/page count perspective.That covers all of the primary, secondary, I would argue gets into tertiary, major archetypes one would need.Supplemental materials, whether that's online or printed, Unearthed Arcana - or other manuals, adventure modules/paths, "Champions of..." books, etc... then, can add archetypes/classes/subclasses/backgrounds/feats of any specificity and ever-narrowing spheres of character narrative ("the X warrior, of Y setting/species, Z province/kingdom/order, abc special abilities - but they're totally NOT the same as some already existing class options") ad infinitum/ad nauseum.What You Need:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter - the Warrior. Combat Expert.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mage - the Wizard. Magic Expert. (Arcane Caster magic-working.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thief - the Rogue. Skill Expert.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cleric - the Mystic. Support Expert. (Divine Channel magic-working.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranger - the Warrior + Rogue. Non-magic Skill Expert & Warrior Support.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druid - the Mystic + Wizard. Nature Magic (caster & channeler) support.</li> </ul>Then...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard - the Mystic + Rogue.  (def. NOT a so-called "full caster" with progression to match a Mage.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin - the Warrior + Mystic (though for me, these really just need to be a specialty cleric/subclass)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Swordmage - the Warrior + Wizard, really needs a better name, but the Fighter-Mage amalgam</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warlock - the Wizard + Rogue, introduces "occult" or "forbidden" magics.</li> </ul>...and...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Barbarian - too strong an archetype not to be included, alternate Warrior construct. Multi-archetype subclasses based on choice of Totem/Clan.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Adept - nee "Monk," too strong an archetype (and game history) not to be included (though should have a shiolin-style/chi-driven subclass option). Multi-archetype subclasses based on choice of Martial Art/Style.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Psychic - introduces psychic energy, nee "psionics", into the game, the psychic powers (NOT "spells") class. Alternate Wizard construct. Multi-archetype subclasses based on choice of "Discipline" (Power Focus/Suite).</li> </ul>With these, you could definitely play just about any D&D fantasy type of game.For my own tastes, I would also want to see included (through supplements):<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Acrobat - a maneuverability rogue/entertainment expert (that isn't a Bard).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alchemist - an arcane skills expert. Makes magic happen without casting or channeling/no spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cavalier/Knight - a non-magic "Paladin" class.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rake - a non-magic "Bard"/coutier class.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Swashbuckler - a maneuverability warrior, maritime expert</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Abjurist - abjuration & divinations wizard, the "protection/defense" magic expert.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Invoker/Cloistered Cleric/Theurgist" - a more castery/(Divine) magic-exclusive cleric.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Illusionist - illusion & enchantments wizard, the "trickery/deception" magic expert.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Necromancer - (too strong of an archetype to ignore) a "death/undeath/spirit" magic wizard.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shaman - the "Spirit World" channeler/magic-worker and shapeshifter.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thaumaturgist - the ceremonial/ritualist magician, Divine & Arcane magic casting wizard.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Witch - a non-patron bound "occult" magic-worker with limited access to all other types of magic and supernatural powers.</li> </ul>From there yu can move into setting and/or species specific classes/archetypes...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Dragon Guardian (dragon-riding/-communicating amazo-draco-warrior)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Hell Knight (demon-hunting abjurer-rangers)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Nature Warden (a "Green Knight" champion of Nature)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Dwarven Defender</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Elfin Bladesinger</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Gnomish Magi-Tinker/Artificer</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Orcish Blood-Brute (totally nooooot a barbarian <eyeroll>)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Shadowcasters of Ick.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Wutzit of Wherever.</li> </ul>etc... unto the ends of the multiverse...</blockquote>

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