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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9359337" data-attributes="member: 4937">I get where you are going here, but there is no need to silo things off in separate classes.&nbsp; Just give every class a certain number of picks for what they want to be good at.&nbsp; That pick then encourages you to follow your thematic choice because spells that fit your thematic choice are now more effective in some manner.&nbsp; The more inferior a thematic choice might normally be, the strong the benefit that a pick in its favor can be.&nbsp; So if you want to have a Time Mage archetype then think what advantage you can give to a mage (whatever the class) with a Time Mage pick that gives them advantage of some sort on spells with the &quot;Time&quot; descriptor.&nbsp; Granted, Time Mage is very hard concept to support because non-linearity and time travel things get all wibbly wobbly very quickly which is why &quot;Precognition&quot; or &quot;Prophesy&quot; is such a hard thing to support.&nbsp; But &quot;Lightning Mage&quot; as a pick that encourages your to mostly focus on lightning magic isn't really hard at all.A lot of the problem comes from the fact that historically at design these problems were poorly considered.&nbsp; For example, the rogue is very tacked on to AD&amp;D because AD&amp;D lacked a unified skill system.&nbsp; Warlords in turn are tacked on because leadership or tactical ability was not considered in the 3e attempt at a unified skill system and well written feats to support &quot;I'm a battlefield leader&quot; weren't considered.&nbsp; So when the 4e warlord showed up, it was paradigm changing for people, but only because of the former silence on the concept.&nbsp; But it's just as tacked on and problematic as the 1e thief.&nbsp; And so forth.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9359337, member: 4937"] I get where you are going here, but there is no need to silo things off in separate classes. Just give every class a certain number of picks for what they want to be good at. That pick then encourages you to follow your thematic choice because spells that fit your thematic choice are now more effective in some manner. The more inferior a thematic choice might normally be, the strong the benefit that a pick in its favor can be. So if you want to have a Time Mage archetype then think what advantage you can give to a mage (whatever the class) with a Time Mage pick that gives them advantage of some sort on spells with the "Time" descriptor. Granted, Time Mage is very hard concept to support because non-linearity and time travel things get all wibbly wobbly very quickly which is why "Precognition" or "Prophesy" is such a hard thing to support. But "Lightning Mage" as a pick that encourages your to mostly focus on lightning magic isn't really hard at all. A lot of the problem comes from the fact that historically at design these problems were poorly considered. For example, the rogue is very tacked on to AD&D because AD&D lacked a unified skill system. Warlords in turn are tacked on because leadership or tactical ability was not considered in the 3e attempt at a unified skill system and well written feats to support "I'm a battlefield leader" weren't considered. So when the 4e warlord showed up, it was paradigm changing for people, but only because of the former silence on the concept. But it's just as tacked on and problematic as the 1e thief. And so forth. [/QUOTE]

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