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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9360961" data-attributes="member: 87792">Three and a half - Bard, Sorcerer. Warlock. Some Paladins. Honestly strength is similar; barbarians, most fighters, most non-multiclassing paladins, some clerics. Wisdom? Druids, most clerics, and a few rangers. And almost no one dumps it.I think Charisma dominance is a meme because in 2e it was the dump stat of choice with no class focusing on it and in 3.X the two that did were sorcerers (which were wannabe wizards in that edition)Here is the core issue. Each class is also supposed to support subclasses, and each subclass is also supposed to have its own unique mechanic or combination that works with the primary class.The Barbarian could go back into fighter easily enough; the Fighter has a clear and obvious space for an extra mechanic like Rage; the Barbarian would become the "rage" subclass of fighter. What the fighter would struggle to support are things like the Storm Herald Barbarian or Wild Magic Barbarian or Beast Barbarian where the subclass builds off and extends the core class mechanics.Nah. A simple new mechanic just creates a subclass these days. Far more efficient.Incidentally this is what the sorcerer/wizard argument is about (especially as it's clear they have overlapping niches). The wizard has some strong class mechanics in the spellbook - but (other than the living spellbook) none of its subclasses really work with what the wizard is about. Worse than that "I can change my spells up" stands in conflict with "I am an illusion specialist".Meanwhile the sorcerer's class mechanics, in metamagic, are weak but also serve to reinforce their magic specialism. If we were to make the Illusionist a sorcerer subclass their ability to tweak their illusions (from Illusionist 6) or even make them partially real (from illusionist 14) would be a perfect thematic fit with the sorcerer with their ability to tweak their spells by metamagic. Meanwhile the Wizard with their One Unique Mechanic of the Spellbook would be a perfect thing to build a sorcerer subclass round.5e only has one problem with the Cloistered Cleric - and that is that the Sorcerer base class is just bad because it doesn't know enough spells and the Divine Soul Sorcerer cruelly adds more stock to the shop while giving no extra slots to buy anything.</blockquote>

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