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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9362984" data-attributes="member: 87792">And Aberrant Minds cast psionic spells. The psion (whether 2e, 3.0, or 3.5, so 33 years not 40) looked like a wizard, talked like a wizard, had hit points and spell slots like a wizard, and wore armour and used weapons like a wizard. And cast spells almost entirely like a wizard ... other than from a different list that was frequently full of things like "Charm, Psionic". And the only substantial differences were:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They used a "manifester level" not a caster level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They used a display not components</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They used power points not spell slots - and could occasionally be upcast</li> </ul>This is as much a lazy knockoff of the wizard as the 3.0/3.5 sorcerer was. The key difference between the two being that Sorcerers were added as an excuse to give wizards more spells because they "shared" them, while Psions didn't share the word because it allowed you to add spells like Darkvision, Psionic, and fill column inches to sell more books full of crunch.In 1e psychic powers were at least different to magic spells - so 40 years isn't true. They were just very bad mechanics.Wizards and sorcerers do have an identity that isn't just "Grab bag of spells in the game". Admittedly it took about a decade for sorcerers to get one. (4e as ever delivering the fluff). But wizards casting their spells out of books allows them to change up their spells in a limited way and to cast rituals without having them prepared.But if we're talking about identities in mean terms Psions need one beyond "Power point casters" (Aberrant Minds are) who use psychic spells (Aberrant minds do), have no V,S, M components (again Aberrant Minds do) and are an excuse to print and sell you new spells and reprint spells with a splash of paint such as Grease, Psionic. Aberrant minds cover the entire mechanical identity of Psions that's not a naked cash grab to sell more books and bloatware.Divine magic is just spells. It's just a different spell list.But there are significant differences beyond that between a Cleric and a Sorcerer. A cleric traditionally stands in the front lines, wearing heavy armour, bashing people over the head with maces, and can change up their spells on a daily basis. Even when we make the Sorcerer a Divine Soul Sorcerer so their spell lists thoroughly overlap it's generally possible at a glance to tell the metamagicking Divine Soul from the beefy and armoured cleric.Meanwhile there is minimal difference between a sorcerer and a psion. Both stand in the back lines with the lowest possible hit dice, wear no armour by default, and are about as inept with weapons as it is possible for a playable class in D&D to be. They hang around in the same place at the battlefield, wearing the same clothes, using the same weapons, and doing the same things (casting backline spells) that refresh on the same daily cycle with many of them having almost the same name, such as Banishment and its knock-off Banishment, Psionic. Both can upcast and neither of them can readily change up their spells the way a cleric or wizard can. This means that when we open up the more psionic spells to the sorcerer and give them the tiny pieces of fluff of no components and of outright power points there is nothing left of the active identity of the Psion. They walk alike, dress alike, cast alike, cast the same spells, and can change their spells in the same way and on the same cycle.4e psionics were annoying. As a 4e fan psions were one of the things I don't want to see - and although I'd like to see a redone Battlemind it takes working from scratch.Divine Soul Sorcerer already has them. They don't have all cleric spells and all psychic spells at the same time. But they have them and it doesn't threaten the cleric.But the cleric is wearing heavy armour, carrying a shield, and has a d8 hit die.  Meanwhile the psion has the same hit die as the wizard (or sorcerer), and is wearing robes like the wizard and wandering around the back lines like a wizard. The basic attack might be the same - but gets stopped by the cleric's (literal) armour. The psion is making death saves.It's not source that keeps clerics safe. And it's not "merging into wizard", it's "Merging into sorcerer". As mentioned you can and they have merged the entire cleric spell list into Divine Soul Sorcerer and it does not threaten the cleric class because a cleric does not behave like a wizard or sorcerer.</blockquote>

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