Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is the right amount of Classes for Dungeons and Dragons?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9364986" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Whenever the Battlemaster "Warlord" comes up people have clearly and relevant mechanical descriptions of what the warlord did but the Battlemaster didn't. And there is strong consensus as to what these are. And why the playstyle doesn't match at all.</p><p></p><p>Whenever the Psion comes up there are (as in this thread) people asking for things already done by the Aberrant Mind. No one has ever mentioned one single thing I am aware of about how the Aberrant Mind has a different playstyle to the Psion. Because it doesn't.</p><p></p><p>And people insisting that because one option at level 14 is something they dislike it ruins the whole thing. And people insisting that psychic spells aren't magic because someone with a thesaurus replaced "caster" with "manifester".</p><p></p><p>I have a large buffet here - Aberrant Mind, GOOlock, Whispers Bard, Astral Self Monk, Soulknife, Psi Warrior.</p><p></p><p>They work differently because they are different classes. We already have that range; GOOlock Bladelock and Soulknife are both psychics with psychic weapons.</p><p></p><p>Which is why the existing buffet is better than your It Must Be A Class And Nothing Else Will Do.</p><p></p><p>Which is what you are trying to do. You are saying there must be one psychic class.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile the existing options are the opposite. We have sorcerers, warlocks, bards, monks, rogues, and fighters all with psionic options.</p><p></p><p>And they had four basic features</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard hp, armour, weapons, and wizard level centralisation on spellcasting.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A spell point casting system with the number of spells points you got being based on wizard totals</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spells you could cast without VSM components</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">70 pages worth of shovelware spells that were often knock-off wizard spells, many referencing the wizard spells by name. There were a few gems in there.</li> </ul><p>And the Aberrant Mind nails points 1-3. It doesn't bother with the shovelware - if a spell is good enough to include it is good enough to share.</p><p></p><p>What are these "half the things" it can't do? Because so far no one I can recall has presented one single thing the Aberrant Mind can't do that a Psion can other than call itself a full class. No one I can recall other than me has even mentioned a single one of the spells that hasn't been ported - or any of the ephemera like psycrystals.</p><p></p><p>And it is a straight up lie to say that Aberrant Mind is being presented as the only option. I've been pointing out revised GOOlocks, Whispers Bards, and Soulknives.</p><p></p><p>Indeed. What the psion used to do has already been eaten by the Aberrant Mind, which left few crumbs. And just one subclass could do it by itself because of how little was actually there mechanically other than a knock-off wizard with a wizardish playstyle.</p><p></p><p>And by not forcing psychics to be wizard knockoffs the way psions did they really got opened up.</p><p></p><p>If you want the Psion mechanics from previous editions the Aberrant Mind has the ones that aren't universal for casters in 5e. They weren't that much.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile if you add a new "this is how psychics work" class you're attempting a straightjacket on something that's already escaped. Meanwhile there's much more room for something like the Mystic that isn't claiming to be The One True Psychic Class.</p><p></p><p>Or they already exist. The only new abilities they could grab would be spells.</p><p></p><p>So what you are saying is that if you don't want the aberration theming no one is making you use it? It's simply the default and alternatives are written in for if you want to play other ways. Your literal complaint here is that it makes plenty of room for your tastes without orbiting around them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9364986, member: 87792"] Whenever the Battlemaster "Warlord" comes up people have clearly and relevant mechanical descriptions of what the warlord did but the Battlemaster didn't. And there is strong consensus as to what these are. And why the playstyle doesn't match at all. Whenever the Psion comes up there are (as in this thread) people asking for things already done by the Aberrant Mind. No one has ever mentioned one single thing I am aware of about how the Aberrant Mind has a different playstyle to the Psion. Because it doesn't. And people insisting that because one option at level 14 is something they dislike it ruins the whole thing. And people insisting that psychic spells aren't magic because someone with a thesaurus replaced "caster" with "manifester". I have a large buffet here - Aberrant Mind, GOOlock, Whispers Bard, Astral Self Monk, Soulknife, Psi Warrior. They work differently because they are different classes. We already have that range; GOOlock Bladelock and Soulknife are both psychics with psychic weapons. Which is why the existing buffet is better than your It Must Be A Class And Nothing Else Will Do. Which is what you are trying to do. You are saying there must be one psychic class. Meanwhile the existing options are the opposite. We have sorcerers, warlocks, bards, monks, rogues, and fighters all with psionic options. And they had four basic features [LIST] [*]Wizard hp, armour, weapons, and wizard level centralisation on spellcasting. [*]A spell point casting system with the number of spells points you got being based on wizard totals [*]Spells you could cast without VSM components [*]70 pages worth of shovelware spells that were often knock-off wizard spells, many referencing the wizard spells by name. There were a few gems in there. [/LIST] And the Aberrant Mind nails points 1-3. It doesn't bother with the shovelware - if a spell is good enough to include it is good enough to share. What are these "half the things" it can't do? Because so far no one I can recall has presented one single thing the Aberrant Mind can't do that a Psion can other than call itself a full class. No one I can recall other than me has even mentioned a single one of the spells that hasn't been ported - or any of the ephemera like psycrystals. And it is a straight up lie to say that Aberrant Mind is being presented as the only option. I've been pointing out revised GOOlocks, Whispers Bards, and Soulknives. Indeed. What the psion used to do has already been eaten by the Aberrant Mind, which left few crumbs. And just one subclass could do it by itself because of how little was actually there mechanically other than a knock-off wizard with a wizardish playstyle. And by not forcing psychics to be wizard knockoffs the way psions did they really got opened up. If you want the Psion mechanics from previous editions the Aberrant Mind has the ones that aren't universal for casters in 5e. They weren't that much. Meanwhile if you add a new "this is how psychics work" class you're attempting a straightjacket on something that's already escaped. Meanwhile there's much more room for something like the Mystic that isn't claiming to be The One True Psychic Class. Or they already exist. The only new abilities they could grab would be spells. So what you are saying is that if you don't want the aberration theming no one is making you use it? It's simply the default and alternatives are written in for if you want to play other ways. Your literal complaint here is that it makes plenty of room for your tastes without orbiting around them. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is the right amount of Classes for Dungeons and Dragons?
Top