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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9485904" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I always presume that the DM is going to not openly say, &quot;Screw you Wizard, you don't get to use your obvious, core class feature that is the only thing even vaguely like 'being a person who does occult, hermetic research.'&quot;As soon as you allow Wizards to do anything more than pick 2 spells per new level gained, the floodgates open tremendously. Clerics always have one and only one list. Yes, if you're literally a brand-new player who has never seen a character sheet before, it's going to be complex because absolutely every spellcaster is complex.But think of it this way: The Wizard still has to review every spell on that list in order to pick the six they start with and the two they get every level thereafter (plus cantrips). Even with every supplement made for 5.0, Clerics have 13 spells to choose from. Wizards have 42. You can't tell me that reading through 13 spells and picking a handful of them is harder than reading through 42 and picking a handful of them. It's even worse with level 2 spells: 20 for Clerics, 60 for Wizards. For at least the first 10 character levels, you almost always have Wizards with double to quadruple the number of possible spells (3rd level spells just barely get over that line, with 26 Cleric spells and &quot;only&quot; 51 Wizard spells.) Overall, there are about two and a half times as many Wizard spells (347) as Cleric spells (132).Clerics never prepare more spells than Wizards with an equivalent casting stat, and the Cleric list almost never changes (seriously, they've gained all of 20 spells over the decade that 5.0 was published). I can't see any argument for how it isn't just straight-up easier (NOT easy, just easier) to get a handle on that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9485904, member: 6790260"] I always presume that the DM is going to not openly say, "Screw you Wizard, you don't get to use your obvious, core class feature that is the only thing even vaguely like 'being a person who does occult, hermetic research.'" As soon as you allow Wizards to do anything more than pick 2 spells per new level gained, the floodgates open [I]tremendously[/I]. Clerics always have one and only one list. Yes, if you're literally a brand-new player who has never seen a character sheet before, it's going to be complex because [I]absolutely every spellcaster is complex[/I]. But think of it this way: The Wizard still has to review every spell on that list in order to pick the six they start with and the two they get every level thereafter (plus cantrips). Even with every supplement made for 5.0, Clerics have 13 spells to choose from. Wizards have [B]42.[/B] You can't tell me that reading through 13 spells and picking a handful of them is harder than reading through 42 and picking a handful of them. It's even worse with level 2 spells: 20 for Clerics, 60 for Wizards. For at least the first 10 character levels, you almost always have Wizards with double to quadruple the number of possible spells (3rd level spells [I]just barely[/I] get over that line, with 26 Cleric spells and "only" 51 Wizard spells.) Overall, there are about two and a half times as many Wizard spells (347) as Cleric spells (132). Clerics never prepare more spells than Wizards with an equivalent casting stat, and the Cleric list almost never changes (seriously, they've gained all of 20 spells over the decade that 5.0 was published). I can't see any argument for how it isn't just straight-up easier (NOT easy, just easi[B][U]er[/U][/B]) to get a handle on that. [/QUOTE]

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