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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3451680" data-attributes="member: 22779">And, I can agree with that.&nbsp; I think we can all agree that actions make one heroic.&nbsp; However, the point of all of this has nothing to do with heroism.&nbsp; It has to with being effective.&nbsp; Now, a low point character isn't inneffective - he can still do things, I completely agree with Crothian about this.&nbsp; However, he is far less effective than the high point character.So, yes, you can be heroic with low points, but, at the end of the day, who cares?&nbsp; You can be equally heroic with high stats.&nbsp; What you can't be with low stats is as effective as the high stat characters.&nbsp; And, at a certain point, you are totally inneffective, as Molonel has pointed out.Which gets back to the point I made earlier that the DM is basically fudging to make the low stat character effective.&nbsp; In other words, change the goalposts to the point where the low stat character is as equally effective as the high stat character.&nbsp; So, effectively, by changing the goalposts, you've created high stat characters to make them heroic.But, at some point, you cannot be heroic at all.&nbsp; In a campaign, as Emrikol has mentioned, that goes from 1st to 20th level, a 15 point character is screwed.&nbsp; Even with the best stat buffing gear out there, he won't have access to higher level spells, his save DC's will be crap and the fighter type's HP's will be in the basement.&nbsp; Never mind any class that suffers from MAD.&nbsp; It's bad enough to play a monk or paladin with 25 points, try it with 15 at about 13th level onward.&nbsp; All the smart play in the world won't save you.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 3451680, member: 22779"] And, I can agree with that. I think we can all agree that actions make one heroic. However, the point of all of this has nothing to do with heroism. It has to with being effective. Now, a low point character isn't inneffective - he can still do things, I completely agree with Crothian about this. However, he is far less effective than the high point character. So, yes, you can be heroic with low points, but, at the end of the day, who cares? You can be equally heroic with high stats. What you can't be with low stats is as effective as the high stat characters. And, at a certain point, you are totally inneffective, as Molonel has pointed out. Which gets back to the point I made earlier that the DM is basically fudging to make the low stat character effective. In other words, change the goalposts to the point where the low stat character is as equally effective as the high stat character. So, effectively, by changing the goalposts, you've created high stat characters to make them heroic. But, at some point, you cannot be heroic at all. In a campaign, as Emrikol has mentioned, that goes from 1st to 20th level, a 15 point character is screwed. Even with the best stat buffing gear out there, he won't have access to higher level spells, his save DC's will be crap and the fighter type's HP's will be in the basement. Never mind any class that suffers from MAD. It's bad enough to play a monk or paladin with 25 points, try it with 15 at about 13th level onward. All the smart play in the world won't save you. [/QUOTE]

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