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<blockquote data-quote="wayne62682" data-source="post: 3453779" data-attributes="member: 40455">The whole &quot;With 25 point buy you can't go outside your field of expertise&quot; thing is another reason why I think that they're lying about 25/Elite Array being the baseline.&nbsp; Either they WANT you to stick to one role (which kind of makes sense, I suppose, being as it fosters teamwork), or they want you to actually be able to use those myriad of other feats without sucking at your primary role (Although that's another can of worms in itself).&nbsp; It can't be both.How they remotely consider it &quot;balanced&quot; when, if you have an idea for a warrior-type who uses Combat Expertise instead of the cookie-cutter Power Attack/Cleave combo, you need to pretty much be terrible at melee combat in order to do it (by virtue of having to sacrifice points that could be used for STR/CON, arguably the best stats for a melee combatant, to ensure you have a high enough Intelligence score) is beyond me.&nbsp; It really seems like they were split between focusing on roles like the &quot;old days&quot; or making it so your roles could overlap, and like everything else they tried to do were pessimistic instead of optimistic (i.e. &quot;Let's limit this more than we should, just in case giving more is too much, instead of making it good enough just in case the reverse wouldn't be enough&quot;)The designers evidently DO consider it balanced if the Fighter just hits things with a sword and can't do anything else, the Rogue finds traps but can't fight in combat worth a damn, the Wizard can cast but a strong wind can blow him down, and the Cleric just stands in the back and heals.&nbsp; But that goes against the whole paradigm of what 3.x was supposed to accomplish, namely breaking the &quot;old-school&quot; archetypal roles and allowing for more freedom.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="wayne62682, post: 3453779, member: 40455"] The whole "With 25 point buy you can't go outside your field of expertise" thing is another reason why I think that they're lying about 25/Elite Array being the baseline. Either they WANT you to stick to one role (which kind of makes sense, I suppose, being as it fosters teamwork), or they want you to actually be able to use those myriad of other feats without sucking at your primary role (Although that's another can of worms in itself). It can't be both. How they remotely consider it "balanced" when, if you have an idea for a warrior-type who uses Combat Expertise instead of the cookie-cutter Power Attack/Cleave combo, you need to pretty much be terrible at melee combat in order to do it (by virtue of having to sacrifice points that could be used for STR/CON, arguably the best stats for a melee combatant, to ensure you have a high enough Intelligence score) is beyond me. It really seems like they were split between focusing on roles like the "old days" or making it so your roles could overlap, and like everything else they tried to do were pessimistic instead of optimistic (i.e. "Let's limit this more than we should, just in case giving more is too much, instead of making it good enough just in case the reverse wouldn't be enough") The designers evidently DO consider it balanced if the Fighter just hits things with a sword and can't do anything else, the Rogue finds traps but can't fight in combat worth a damn, the Wizard can cast but a strong wind can blow him down, and the Cleric just stands in the back and heals. But that goes against the whole paradigm of what 3.x was supposed to accomplish, namely breaking the "old-school" archetypal roles and allowing for more freedom. [/QUOTE]

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