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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
What is the true "value" of improved vision types & replacements
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8069998" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 26px"><strong>Darkvision</strong></span></p><p>[ATTACH=full]124903[/ATTACH]</p><p>regardless of how you value it, d&d has always placed some value on it with regards to having darkvision vrs not having it even if that value is "this race is already really good so normal vision". At the table darkvision is less than useful if you aren't a rogue or something going off sneaking. Every description in a published adventure is written for normal vision &</p><p>the number of times you hear something like "well yea because of your darkvision, you look through the brambles & see the obvious baddie" is going to be approaching zero compared to "roll perception" after a player points out they have darkvision. In the past there were all kinds of darkvision, lowlght vision, infravision, low light vision, & so many more niche ones like blindsight & life sight but having one for everyone but the sneaky scout meant that you played the game exactly like the darkblind human who needed a torch because the whole party is hurt if they abandon bob back there in the dark. In a sense some of this can be blamed on the fact <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman" target="_blank">that most writers are human</a>, but even when you had races with the <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scent" target="_blank">scent</a> ability you had an ability that was basically no use if you weren't the scout/tracker & as a result your other abilities were balanced against having something that's mainly going to make a diffeernce when there is enough of a stench in the air to hinder the elf/human/etc lacking that ability.</p><p></p><p>Alternate vision types don't need to be that way though, for example:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Darkvision</strong>: You can see in darkness better than humans & other diurnal races. You are capable of using a goodlight & all normal light sources have double the range for you<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Goodlight(s): </strong><em>These magical lightsources come in many forms & races with darkvision or improved darkvision will claim they shed light from 5-30 feet. Once clipped to their armor or attached to a cave wall & activated, all others without darkvision will require a dc15 perception check to tell if a specific goodlight they are inspecting is activated or not. </em> Right away everyone with darkvision has a real and tangible benefit both in the role of scout/tracker as well as a minor benefit in standard combat where the gm wants to use light & shadow.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Life Sense:</strong> You are able to see the aura of people's souls & have greater control over your own. This grants benefits when dealing with others as the soul typically reflects intent & disposition. When dealing with others who lack this sense you are considered to be proficient with insight & deception through both watching the fluctuations in their soul as well as actively using your own to emit a false sense of things like honesty truthfulness or even fear,</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Heart Sense:</strong>Much like a shark, you have a special organ or magical sense that allows you to sense the heartbeat of living creatures within 100 feet provided their are no obstructions. like a door or wall. For purposes of detecting living creatures you are always considered sighted & proficient in perception<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Heart Guarded:</strong> This minor enchantment is often added to the armor of scouts & bandits to block their presence from Heart Sense, but wearing such armor tends to cause such feelings of wrongness & dishonesty that it almost always includes a verbal component to activate and deactivate as beings with heart sense will often refuse to speak on friendly terms with a heart guarded individual while the enchantment is active</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Magic Sense:</strong> Mana, magicules, spiritual pressure, ki.. There are many names for it, but you can see it plain as a torch light. You can automatically detect the presence of magical auras present in magic items at a glance & can see when an individual is affected by a spell but gain no insight into what sort of magic you are seeing without further training & the use of relevant skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Health sense:</strong>Although not as precise as some would have others believe, you are able to sense injuries in others at a glance & with more effort can roughly estimate the health of one individual compared to another by spending a full round looking.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Yes it's a <em>magic </em>sense. that allows you to magically estimate if bob has more hit points than that ogre or not & tell at a glance "hey bob how you doing for health?"</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Others: </strong>????</li> </ul><p>All of these have a use outside of combat that makes Alice feel different than Bob & quite a few have benefits that extend into combat/dungeon crawl type play regardless of your role</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8069998, member: 93670"] [CENTER][SIZE=7][B]Darkvision[/B][/SIZE][/CENTER] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1597958616593.png"]124903[/ATTACH] regardless of how you value it, d&d has always placed some value on it with regards to having darkvision vrs not having it even if that value is "this race is already really good so normal vision". At the table darkvision is less than useful if you aren't a rogue or something going off sneaking. Every description in a published adventure is written for normal vision & the number of times you hear something like "well yea because of your darkvision, you look through the brambles & see the obvious baddie" is going to be approaching zero compared to "roll perception" after a player points out they have darkvision. In the past there were all kinds of darkvision, lowlght vision, infravision, low light vision, & so many more niche ones like blindsight & life sight but having one for everyone but the sneaky scout meant that you played the game exactly like the darkblind human who needed a torch because the whole party is hurt if they abandon bob back there in the dark. In a sense some of this can be blamed on the fact [URL='https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman']that most writers are human[/URL], but even when you had races with the [URL='https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scent']scent[/URL] ability you had an ability that was basically no use if you weren't the scout/tracker & as a result your other abilities were balanced against having something that's mainly going to make a diffeernce when there is enough of a stench in the air to hinder the elf/human/etc lacking that ability. Alternate vision types don't need to be that way though, for example: [LIST] [*][B]Darkvision[/B]: You can see in darkness better than humans & other diurnal races. You are capable of using a goodlight & all normal light sources have double the range for you [LIST] [*][B]Goodlight(s): [/B][I]These magical lightsources come in many forms & races with darkvision or improved darkvision will claim they shed light from 5-30 feet. Once clipped to their armor or attached to a cave wall & activated, all others without darkvision will require a dc15 perception check to tell if a specific goodlight they are inspecting is activated or not. [/I] Right away everyone with darkvision has a real and tangible benefit both in the role of scout/tracker as well as a minor benefit in standard combat where the gm wants to use light & shadow. [/LIST] [*][B]Life Sense:[/B] You are able to see the aura of people's souls & have greater control over your own. This grants benefits when dealing with others as the soul typically reflects intent & disposition. When dealing with others who lack this sense you are considered to be proficient with insight & deception through both watching the fluctuations in their soul as well as actively using your own to emit a false sense of things like honesty truthfulness or even fear, [*][B]Heart Sense:[/B]Much like a shark, you have a special organ or magical sense that allows you to sense the heartbeat of living creatures within 100 feet provided their are no obstructions. like a door or wall. For purposes of detecting living creatures you are always considered sighted & proficient in perception [LIST] [*][B]Heart Guarded:[/B] This minor enchantment is often added to the armor of scouts & bandits to block their presence from Heart Sense, but wearing such armor tends to cause such feelings of wrongness & dishonesty that it almost always includes a verbal component to activate and deactivate as beings with heart sense will often refuse to speak on friendly terms with a heart guarded individual while the enchantment is active [/LIST] [*][B]Magic Sense:[/B] Mana, magicules, spiritual pressure, ki.. There are many names for it, but you can see it plain as a torch light. You can automatically detect the presence of magical auras present in magic items at a glance & can see when an individual is affected by a spell but gain no insight into what sort of magic you are seeing without further training & the use of relevant skills. [*][B]Health sense:[/B]Although not as precise as some would have others believe, you are able to sense injuries in others at a glance & with more effort can roughly estimate the health of one individual compared to another by spending a full round looking. [LIST] [*]Yes it's a [I]magic [/I]sense. that allows you to magically estimate if bob has more hit points than that ogre or not & tell at a glance "hey bob how you doing for health?" [/LIST] [*][B]Others: [/B]???? [/LIST] All of these have a use outside of combat that makes Alice feel different than Bob & quite a few have benefits that extend into combat/dungeon crawl type play regardless of your role [/QUOTE]
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What is the true "value" of improved vision types & replacements
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