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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8061995" data-attributes="member: 87792">One of the core problems of post-TSR non-4e D&D is that there's no real vision of what a high level fighter should be. Fundamentally a first level fighter moves at a human's pace and swings a sharpened piece of metal hard and fast at enemies in arms' length to kill them. A 20th level fighter ... moves at a human's pace and swings a sharpened piece of metal at enemies in arms' length to kill them.  Meanwhile the wizard has graduated from burning hands a couple of times a day to permanently shapeshifting into a dragon, creating demiplanes, and casting Wish.This wasn't the case in TSR era D&D for multiple reasons:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The game was effectively soft-capped at level 9 or 10 due to the XP charts</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The fighter as a class feature got a small army as well as lands, and the small army gave them their ability to do weird things</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The wizard had far fewer spells known, and especially a much weaker choice of them</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Levels didn't claim to be equal; there were different XP tracks for different classes.</li> </ul>It also wasn't true in 4e with its reigned in magic and fighters who could do some pretty impressive things at epic level. But it's been true in 3.0, 3.5, and 5e. And is something that could and should be fixed.So what does it mean for the fighter to level up in Level Up? Is the fighter an inherently low level archetype?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Mythic Fighter - Beowulf, CuChulain, Hercules, Roland, Outlaws of the Water Margin. The high level fighter is the demigod of mythology, able to perform ridiculous feats of strength and physical ability, leaving reality far behind.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Deadly Fighter - John Wick, et al. The deadly fighter putting a sword through someone kills them dead - and none of this "hit points" nonsense that makes a high level fighter feel like they are wielding boffer swords. Instead what they hit they normally kill (literal gods may be merely discorporated) irrespective of defences, and the trick is delivering the fighter to the target. And they can also do the old AD&D trick of one attack per class level per round against weak foes to thresh their way through minions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Noble - the AD&D fighter writ large, with more troops and more elite troops as they level up. The fighter themselves is deadly - but so are their minions. Even this breaks down after about level 14 or so.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Level Cap - fighters are inherently mundane and simply do not have the potential to hang with the big boys. Cap them at level 10.</li> </ul>This, of course, is a perfect case for Prestige Classes - at level 10 the fighter picks one of the above options as well as or instead of continuing to level up as a fighter. Possibly as a second subclass.The rogue of course has a similar problem and needs its own discussion.</blockquote>

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