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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
What is the vision of the high level fighter?
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8063438" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>In the old TSR Fighters (and any martial character or Fighter sub-class as it was called) were FEARED by spellcasters. High Level Fighters even more so. </p><p></p><p>The first and primary reason is if a fighter hit the caster, the spell was disrupted. No save. It simply ended any chance for that spell to be cast as long as the warrior hit them prior to the spell being cast. This made archers (and multiple chances to hit the wizard) a scary proposition.</p><p></p><p>The High Level Fighter also had good saves. Their chances to save against any spell were inordinately HIGH compared to any version of the game after 3e. The Fighter was pretty resistant to magic, even if the wizard got the spell off.</p><p></p><p>And finally, as Fighters ability to hit (or proficiency bonus) went up far more quickly than any other class, a high level fighter's chances to hit a wizard, even a wizard with protection spells, was basically guaranteed. </p><p></p><p>Today, a High Level Fighter might not hit that wizard. They have multiple attacks (So did Fighters in the old TSR days, but their chances to hit were a LOT higher against a wizard's AC)...strike one against the Fighter. The Fighter doesn't get an inherent bonus to hit that is any better than any one else's ability. Their proficiency bonus is exactly that same (which still boggles my mind. It's like saying that professor in the library who's gone on digs for 5 years is going to have the same proficiency to hit with a chosen weapon as a trained soldier who's been trained to kill for the past 5 years). The Fighter has no inherent bonus over any other class anymore in this area.</p><p></p><p>[And there are those that might point to STR bonuses to hit...but many High Level Fighters would have those bonuses as well in the Old TSR days...and if you include Weapon Specialization and wishes...that STR could give them at least a +3 to hit, and with weapon specialization that could go up to +6...and that was on TOP of their normal bonuses to hit...which could be a +15 or +18 right there...they were going to hit the wizards FAR more often than a fighter does today...and they had multiple attacks on top of that too!!!).</p><p></p><p>Today, the High level fighter does not have good saves in every category. They will be weak in several areas which are easy for a Wizard to target and take the Fighter out.</p><p></p><p>Today, it's not as easy to simply disrupt a spell. The Wizard may be disturbed, but keep on going.</p><p></p><p>This is one MAJOR reason why Fighters have gotten a lot weaker against their spellcasting counterparts at high levels in modern D&D.</p><p></p><p>If one wants an epic Fighter...these are some of the things that probably should be addressed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 8063438, member: 4348"] In the old TSR Fighters (and any martial character or Fighter sub-class as it was called) were FEARED by spellcasters. High Level Fighters even more so. The first and primary reason is if a fighter hit the caster, the spell was disrupted. No save. It simply ended any chance for that spell to be cast as long as the warrior hit them prior to the spell being cast. This made archers (and multiple chances to hit the wizard) a scary proposition. The High Level Fighter also had good saves. Their chances to save against any spell were inordinately HIGH compared to any version of the game after 3e. The Fighter was pretty resistant to magic, even if the wizard got the spell off. And finally, as Fighters ability to hit (or proficiency bonus) went up far more quickly than any other class, a high level fighter's chances to hit a wizard, even a wizard with protection spells, was basically guaranteed. Today, a High Level Fighter might not hit that wizard. They have multiple attacks (So did Fighters in the old TSR days, but their chances to hit were a LOT higher against a wizard's AC)...strike one against the Fighter. The Fighter doesn't get an inherent bonus to hit that is any better than any one else's ability. Their proficiency bonus is exactly that same (which still boggles my mind. It's like saying that professor in the library who's gone on digs for 5 years is going to have the same proficiency to hit with a chosen weapon as a trained soldier who's been trained to kill for the past 5 years). The Fighter has no inherent bonus over any other class anymore in this area. [And there are those that might point to STR bonuses to hit...but many High Level Fighters would have those bonuses as well in the Old TSR days...and if you include Weapon Specialization and wishes...that STR could give them at least a +3 to hit, and with weapon specialization that could go up to +6...and that was on TOP of their normal bonuses to hit...which could be a +15 or +18 right there...they were going to hit the wizards FAR more often than a fighter does today...and they had multiple attacks on top of that too!!!). Today, the High level fighter does not have good saves in every category. They will be weak in several areas which are easy for a Wizard to target and take the Fighter out. Today, it's not as easy to simply disrupt a spell. The Wizard may be disturbed, but keep on going. This is one MAJOR reason why Fighters have gotten a lot weaker against their spellcasting counterparts at high levels in modern D&D. If one wants an epic Fighter...these are some of the things that probably should be addressed. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
What is the vision of the high level fighter?
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