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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8063454" data-attributes="member: 6801228">And without magic items the fighter has a 21 AC at best versus a +18 to hit, and their highest save is a also a +11, only their's is Con, which is going to half damage anyways most of the time. Also, the ambushed wizard activates contingency to dimension door away, then begins destroying the goblins from a better positon. Or casts Fire Storm. Or does a Wall of Force/Stone/Fire. Meanwhile... the fighter now has multiple turns, because they now need to reach each goblins. So, they are still in a worse position to deal with them all quickly.Yeah, if you fail to prevent the enemy from achieving their goals. You've lost. the Archdevil merged the planes, now the Devils have free reign enter the material world, and you have no way of reaching them to end the ritual. You are fighting a losing war of attrition in a world no overrun with Devils. Sure, you aren't dead yet, but you will be, and you can't stop them. I guess the campaign can continue in this new ruined world, but most people would roll up new characters. Probably some magic-users so they stand a chance of stopping whatever goes wrong in this new world. Or, more than likely, the DM gives you a friendly mage to solve that problem, so the plot isn't "and the heroes had no way of stopping the apocalypse, so the world ended in fire and death."Cantrips are a thing. And quite useful. Also, by 20th level, you have some 1st and 2nd spells at will, so that is a thing too. Not exactly what I'd call a "useless bag of meat" Quite well. Most casters I've seen in beholder fights are smart enough to move in and out of the anti-magic zone. They move out, hit the beholder, then move back in so the Beholder can't hit them with their eye rays. And, since the Beholder only gets to change it's cone at the start of its turn, if it moves the cone to hit the wizard, they have full access to all of their magicAmusingly, it is generally barbarians and melee fighters who have the hardest time, since the Beholder is usually flying out of reach, and anti-magic prevents them from safely flying up to stab it. They are literally no worse at saving throws than anyone else. And since they tend to have proficiency in mental saves, they tend to be better off than fighters and barbarians against some of the worst effects.I think the only way to really do that is the "fighter's only go to level 10, then they get a more impressive prestige class" route. Because I think most of us agree that the idea of having the classes inherently unbalanced where the wizard is a superior choice in 80% of all circumstances is a problem.  Yeah, the first and biggest thing would be to make the BBEG practically immune to magic and able to ignore its effects. I mean, a simple combo like Heat Metal (5th level), Cloudkill, and Wall of Force (using only three casters of our four casters) can deal 550d8 damage. Even with saving for half, I think that is about 300d8 damage, which is over a thousand damage from succeeding the saves. Without the ability to ignore magic, the BBEG dies.</blockquote>

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