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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8065502" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I see the end goal, but I think I like too much of the Barbarian and fighter subclasses to commit to it. I find them all excellent thematically. It is in execution&nbsp; they need help.Oh, it is definetly possible, and I prefer it. I own Colville's Strongholds and Followers and while the book is far far from perfect, I've used it as a spring board for those sorts of systems and campaigns.If I had a good answer to that question, I'd have given it by now. But, to be fair to the point (which was get rid of fighters because rogues, paladins, rangers and barbarians cover all the bases) Rogues, Paladins, Rangers and Bararians also can't compete with those spells in any meaningful way. I mean, off the battlefield the most impressive thing a Paladin can do is summon a flying horse and raise the dead. Two things that the casters have been able to do for nearly 10 levels. And both things more impressive than what a rogue or Barbarian can accomplish. Hmm... maybe one ability to give all fighters and maybe even all martials but fighters the most are inerrupts. Tying it to that &quot;Heroic Surge&quot; ability, you could give the fighter a chance to take an action to interrupt a caster. Perhaps you throw your greataxe, potentially disrupting their spell. Sure, &quot;free counterspell&quot; but I'm talking as a 15th level or higher ability (with other interrupts being built into the class earlier) Argh, that is still combat though. Outside of combat, nothing beats magic. Skills are the only thing that come close and they aren't enough on their own.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8065502, member: 6801228"] I see the end goal, but I think I like too much of the Barbarian and fighter subclasses to commit to it. I find them all excellent thematically. It is in execution they need help. Oh, it is definetly possible, and I prefer it. I own Colville's Strongholds and Followers and while the book is far far from perfect, I've used it as a spring board for those sorts of systems and campaigns. If I had a good answer to that question, I'd have given it by now. But, to be fair to the point (which was get rid of fighters because rogues, paladins, rangers and barbarians cover all the bases) Rogues, Paladins, Rangers and Bararians also can't compete with those spells in any meaningful way. I mean, off the battlefield the most impressive thing a Paladin can do is summon a flying horse and raise the dead. Two things that the casters have been able to do for nearly 10 levels. And both things more impressive than what a rogue or Barbarian can accomplish. Hmm... maybe one ability to give all fighters and maybe even all martials but fighters the most are inerrupts. Tying it to that "Heroic Surge" ability, you could give the fighter a chance to take an action to interrupt a caster. Perhaps you throw your greataxe, potentially disrupting their spell. Sure, "free counterspell" but I'm talking as a 15th level or higher ability (with other interrupts being built into the class earlier) Argh, that is still combat though. Outside of combat, nothing beats magic. Skills are the only thing that come close and they aren't enough on their own. [/QUOTE]

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