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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8065659" data-attributes="member: 6987520">The issue (IMO anyway) I've seen from many of the suggestions here is:1. Fighters should not be focused on magical abilities. If you want to focus on magic, play something else. (There is too much magic overlap in 5E for me anyway, but that is a whole other issue... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )2. Most of the good suggestions to make high level fighters better result in diminishing other classes (e.g. granting expertise).I don't expect fighters to be able to do what anyone else can do, otherwise we wouldn't need other classes. I don't expect fighters' ability to match the high magic (6-9) of casters. Why? Because as earthshaking as some of those powers are, you get a handful (at best) a day. You don't even get any until 11th level, when fighters gain Extra Attack (2).I agree with some others on things I miss from Fighters in AD&D is overall the best saves. But in 5E that was given to monks. And, of course, in AD&D Paladins and Rangers had the "best saves" as well being subclasses of Fighters.Suggestions about endurance, etc. fit better with Barbarians IMO.People who want more skills obviously fit better with Rogues.And so on...Too much of what a generic class ("Fighter") could do has been doled out to other classes.So, what do I expect Fighters at high levels to excel at? FIGHTING. Throw in commanding, tactics, and such. Think of Achilles with his Myrmidons warriors. By tier 3 and definitely into tier 4, perhaps heroic feats (but many such things fit better with barbarians or other classes). Which again leads to the issue with Fighters--too much given to other classes.Now, the idea of levels 1-10 being base and then 11-20 moving into focused isn't bad. You could really do this for all classes IMO. Fighters could (for people who want it) branch off into some magical abilities, or become warlords, or become weapon masters, or whatever different branches get developed for 11-20 levels. BUT... then you have the people who complain, "I have an idea for a PC, but don't want to wait until 14th level to see it fully developed." Which is a VALID point IMO (I'm not discounting such complaints!) and in general many PC builds should come "online" by level 6-8 as I see it.I don't see why we can't have a subclass choice at levels 1-3 for each class and a (for lack of a better term) prestige class choice around levels 11-13? Your subclass features till advance as well, but now you will pick up maybe 3 prestige class features to go along with them.</blockquote>

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