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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6546380" data-attributes="member: 6677017">Forgive me if I'm missing something (maybe I'm dense), but what I'm seeing repeatedly is almost an entire disregard for everything about warlock except their at-will damage. Other class features matter.You may not like the other class features. You may not care about the other class features. Or we may all be stuck into the 3e-4e mindset that warlocks are strikers (which is an assumption that may not actually hold for 5e). But the class obviously was designed to take into account the other class features. It doesn't make any sense to disregard other class features. The entire point I'm making is, "given all the other stuff warlock's get, are they supposed to also have at-will damage on par with some of the best at-will damage classes in the book?"Now, I freely admit that the design intent answer might be "yes, we didn't consider their other features on par with similar classes, and very high at-will damage is part of the class's balance." But I haven't seen any arguments addressing the details that are needed to establish that. The only argument I can actually agree with is that their spellcasting is less flexible in some ways. Given 2 short rests per/day and pact of the Tome (and my comparison in previous post baked that in and accounted for it in comparisons) their spellcasting is about as powerful as other classes. If you compare the list of class abilities (from my last post) to the other classes, warlocks don't look to me like they are lagging. If flexibility in spellcasting matters, then flexibility in class features matters also. The space that is taken up by pre-defined class abilities in other classes (the table in my previous post), is "design your own" for warlock.But are the rogue's other class features as good as the warlocks? If the warlock massively outstrips rogue in everything but at-will damage, it seems unbalanced for them to be keeping up with a rogue's at-will damage.This is actually an excellent point of comparison. Warlocks have the same HD and armor as rogues, and don't have need of weapons. If a warlock's at-will damage is roughly comparable to that of a rogue--are their other class features equivalent?I mean, I'm just not seeing it. All of those invocations, the subclass abilities, 9th level spellcasting. Can anyone make me an argument that a warlock's class features outside of their at-will damage, are roughly equivalent to a rogues?</blockquote>

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