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<blockquote data-quote="Sadras" data-source="post: 7323515" data-attributes="member: 6688277">You differentiate between a dungeon puzzle and non-dungeon puzzle. You seem to be ok or at least understand the need to 'world building' a dungeon but not world-building beyond that? Why is that?&nbsp;The intrigue of a faction filled-city with a who-done-it theme is not a puzzle-solving game?Using an old map to journey through the dangerous Altan Tepes mountains is not similar enough to you to dungeon crawling (but on a much larger scale)?Rightly you say alignment is built into the puzzle of the AD&amp;D dungeon game, but you seemingly dismiss it if one is slaughtering/torturing dryads in a quest to find the Tree of Life? Do you assume, for most tables, there will be no consequences in the latter example?&nbsp; Players are not necessarily mapping a maze in a non-dungeon game, but they are establishing connections/relationships between themselves and others, discovering how widespread the evil organisation is, exploring an underwater lake, or traversing the open seas searching for that elusive island...etcWith regards to player moves - Old School: I search for secret doors by doing x? Roll a Die5e DMG page 236-237 under the heading The Middle PathAs you can see Old School style of play is not all together removed. It is actually listed as one of the options (Ignoring the Dice) along with the most preferred style, The Middle Path.As for dungeon inventory you listed the 10 foot pole and torches. Wilderness/urban inventory includes horses and 5e tools (disguise kit, gaming sets, navigators tools, healers kit, vehicles). The equipment list didn't suddenly disappear after Basic.Sure gaming styles have evolved, but worldbuilding is important now as it was then (dungeon or no dungeon), whether you establish it before or during play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sadras, post: 7323515, member: 6688277"] You differentiate between a dungeon puzzle and non-dungeon puzzle. You seem to be ok or at least understand the need to 'world building' a dungeon but not world-building beyond that? Why is that? The intrigue of a faction filled-city with a who-done-it theme is not a puzzle-solving game? Using an old map to journey through the dangerous Altan Tepes mountains is not similar enough to you to dungeon crawling (but on a much larger scale)? Rightly you say alignment is built into the puzzle of the AD&D dungeon game, but you seemingly dismiss it if one is slaughtering/torturing dryads in a quest to find the Tree of Life? Do you assume, for most tables, there will be no consequences in the latter example? Players are not necessarily mapping a maze in a non-dungeon game, but they are establishing connections/relationships between themselves and others, discovering how widespread the evil organisation is, exploring an underwater lake, or traversing the open seas searching for that elusive island...etc With regards to player moves - Old School: I search for secret doors by doing x? Roll a Die 5e DMG page 236-237 under the heading The Middle Path As you can see Old School style of play is not all together removed. It is actually listed as one of the options (Ignoring the Dice) along with the most preferred style, The Middle Path. As for dungeon inventory you listed the 10 foot pole and torches. Wilderness/urban inventory includes horses and 5e tools (disguise kit, gaming sets, navigators tools, healers kit, vehicles). The equipment list didn't suddenly disappear after Basic. Sure gaming styles have evolved, but worldbuilding is important now as it was then (dungeon or no dungeon), whether you establish it before or during play. [/QUOTE]

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