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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7326984" data-attributes="member: 29398">Again reflecting reality, where in most non-trivial situations while you might be able to vaguely anticipate what'll happen next you can never be sure.Using the 100-Ogres example again, while you-as-PCs might well anticipate they'll send out search parties once their hunter groups fail to return it's always possible the Ogres will somehow have another means of knowing what's happened, causing them to do something unexpected like flee the area or attack the PCs en masse.  Just like it'd work if it was real....which is what we're after, isn't it?I wouldn't go so far as to flat-out say the PCs can't learn this info, only that their likelihood of doing so would be more or less small.  Further, there's also a possibility that information gathered may be inaccurate or misinterpreted.For example: the PCs' foreknowledge might correctly include that the Ogres have a spellcaster among them.  Knowing that Ogres aren't generally the brightest of creatures which makes it extremely unlikely that any caster would be a Wizard type, their logical assumption is that it's a Shaman or even Cleric of some sort.  What the PCs don't know is that while the Ogres have a well-known and fearsome chieftain their de facto leader-from-behind is actually an Ogre Mage who pretty much never leaves the caves.As for the tracking dogs: if the PCs spent several days observing the caves it's always possible they saw a dog or two now and then coming and going with the hunting groups and from this may or may not be able to deduce that a) the dogs can track and-or hunt, and b) they are obedient to the Ogres.Sure we (as DMs) do.  It tells us where this treasure is kept when the Chief Priest is asleep, for example, or when he sees a situation coming in which he might risk losing it.Just because he's giving a quest doesn't mean the PCs aren't going to try and kill him for his stuff, or sneak back and try to rob him later.I actually like this in a module - it's an attempt to account for a "what if this happens?", which is something many canned modules (from all editions) are quite poor at. On this particular point I think we've already found agreement.The disagreement lies with backstory that has not yet come up in, or somehow affected, the run of play.Still think this second method is in effect the players somewhat railroading the DM through their action declarations, particularly if there's no doubt involved and the DM is thus obliged to say yes.Lanefan</blockquote>

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