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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7329141" data-attributes="member: 42582">I agree that different systems call for different amounts of prep. 4e is very prep-heavy, for instance, and so I don't run it without my Monster Manuals and other tools handy.But this sort of prep is (or, at least, can be) distinguished from pre-authoring the setting. Intricate maps create more pressure in that respect, I agree - but (speaking just from my own experience) this is where tried-and-true methods like prepping between sessions come in handy! (Eg the players have their PCs enter the Underdark - now you draw up your Underdark encounter map.)As to whether encounter maps are secret backstory - more on that below (in this post).OK. As per my reply just upthread to [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION], I can see that this is a thing but I'm not clear why it's a good thing? (Which is not to say it's a bad thing.)I don't know your players. I'm sure you know their tastes.It's the description that I'm interested in.How is "I search the study for the map - is it there?" authoring fiction as part of an action declaration?Even if one looks at a mechanic like Circles in Burning Wheel, it can work in different ways, eg:(1) "The head of my sorcerous cabal is Jabal the Red. I reach out to hin to see what he has to say." - fiction is authored in the action declaration. (2) "Are there any knights of my order in these parts? I'm looking for signs of them as we travel." - no fiction is authored in the action declaration.This is why I take the view that the issue of player authorship of content, and the issue of "secret backstory" as a factor in resolution, are (in general) orthogonal.A case that illustrates the contrast (and I'm basing this claim in experience) is the use of divination, knowledge skils etc. Consider "I cast object reading: what do I see?" This is a fairly common action declaration in my 4e game. It requires me to make stuff up to tell the players. (To relate this to the idea of prep - the idea that the GM has object reading notes for every item that comes up in the course of play seems absurd to me, and any player who doesn't work out that the GM is making this stuff up must be kidding him-/herself!)In BW, that's not really a permissible action declaration, or at least is on the borderline - the player really needs at least to signal something about why s/he (as the PC) cares, or what s/he might be hoping to learn. But that's a feature of BW that depends upon its approach to backstory, but goes beyond what is merely part of that approach.Obviuosly the map example is an example that serves as a simple illustration and a place holder. In real life the context of actual play is everything.I agree with you that the scope of the scene is important - one way of trying to characterise Gygaxian play would be that the whole dungeon is the scene. (I don't know that that sheds much light, but if one is determined to analyse Gygaxian play in scene-framing terms, that would be one way to do it.) Upthread I posted the following thoughts about secret backstory and resulting "fiat" failure as an aspect of scene scope:I think when the whole mansion is the scene, and the map is hidden in the bread-bin in the kitchen, there may well be a real risk of (ii) failing - both because the breadbins may have no inherent salience to the players as potential map repositories, and because the players are very dependent on the GM presenting the mansion to them by way of narration, and that narration may fail to engender the right sort of salience of breadbins in the kitchen (especially if the GM is worried that drawing attention to the bread bins may give away what s/he is hoping will be a puzzle).I think there are also risks around (iii) - assuming that this map matters for whatever purpose, then failing to find it may be a "rocks fall"-type roadblock. (As [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] alluded to in his most recent post.)One way of thinking about the Gumshoe system is that it's really an attempt to circumvent (iii), by making sure that at least the basic clues are handed out automatically once the fictional positioining is more-or-less adequate. Which then removes a lot of the burden of (ii); but obviously also gives the game very much the flavour of "following the GM's story", I think.</blockquote>

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