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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 7329504" data-attributes="member: 3192">Obvious to any game designer who has read the Big Model, it is an intentional falsehood meant to subvert all gaming by treating gaming as the act of improvisational expression, which it is not. Read any actual game design theory for hundreds of years. Gaming is the act of goal seeking in a structural design, whether made by a person or not.Narrative concepts and terminology are part of a fundamentally different culture which does not coincide with game culture. Yet you continue to perpetrate the lies of The Big Model when you continue to call elements of gaming "fictions" (a narrative term). There is no such thing as an actual fiction, I assume you know this. The theory of narratives is meant to be used pragmatically just as any other. Game elements are structures, mechanical designs which operate together in a single apparatus for the players to game (seek pre-existing goals within). Yes, this means the cobwebs have to "be there", at least in the hidden game design the DM has behind the screen, if the players are going to be able to interact with them in any way. Players can believe whatever they choose about the actual hidden design. But it is up to the DM to objectively relate the current configuration when the players' pieces have the ability to discover such things.To be clear, gaming is a repetitive act where the players can game a design, learn their scores, adjust their play, and improve their ability at the game over time. This is the opposite act of creative improv. It is also at the heart of roleplaying in D&D: mastering the game, demonstrating this by scoring points, going up in level, and being balanced against more difficult game designs.What appalls me is your attempt to vilify the seminal moment of RPGs as "badwrongfun", when Arneson and Gygax took the massive and nuanced game designs from wargame tables and hid them behind screens. Thus enabling them to track highly detailed and vast game designs which players could game over 100s of hours as they advanced in their personal mastery of the game. By my understanding RPGS and D&D in particular are the first Hidden Design Games in history, and the type of game design almost all computer games follow as well. That Gary recognized that multiple manners of play and mastery were possible in games is something he's still ahead on when it comes to computer game design.The Forge & the current vein of narrative theory they use (not just a theory at all to them, I propose) is nothing less than Anti-Game Theory. And and it is Anti-D&D. Regardless of whatever the latest brand name owners purvey.</blockquote>

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