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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7330187" data-attributes="member: 42582">As the OP says, there are different approaches to RPGing. Gygaxian D&D is what you call "hidden design" - I personally find the idea of mazes and puzzles more a better way to try to explain the play of it, but that's probably a tangential matter.I also think that that style of play has been a minority approach in the hobby at least since 1985 or thereabouts, and maybe even before then. There are other ways of RPGing - they were clearly emerging in the late 70s, because Lewis Pulsipher wrote essays explaining why he preferred what you call the "hidden design" approach and what he called the "wargame" approach.Classic Traveller was published in 1977, Runequest in 1978. I think it's possible to play Glorantha as a type of "hidden design" game, but I suspect it's not that rewarding, and I don't think that is what appealed to people about RQ. They were attracted to what they saw as its narrative power. (Whether or not it is a good system for that is another question.)I've recently been refereeing Classic Traveller. I don't think it's very-well suited for "hidden design" at all - the mechanics are all on the surface and the players are expected to have read them. I have a few early published modules for Traveller which are essentially mysteries, but without the engaging or plot-twisty character of a good CoC module. I couldn't possibly imagine running them without having pillows and blankets ready for my snoozing players, I can't imagine that audiences c 1980 regarded them as heaps more interesting than I do. If one looks at the adventure seeds published in Supplement 6 76 Patrons, they're clearly push in favour of a story/mystery/plot-twisty game which is not going to work very well as "hidden design" for the reasons I gave in the OP: the parameters are too wide and too variable, and (something you've mentioned in a recent post) the players don't get to do multiple tries to improve their play as they do in dungeoneering RPGing.So that's my take on signs of divergence from your preferred approach around 40 years ago.For what it's worth, I personally do not enjoy Gygaxian play, and lack the patience for it either as player or GM. The fact that I enjoy games that are different from what you call "hidden design" games, though, I think has had little influence on the overall destiny of the hobby. I'm not a professional game designer, not a professional referee, and haven't been to a convention for many years. I play with a group of friends in Melbourne, Australia, have done a little bit of PbP with like-minded people on these boards, and post in threads that are read by (perhaps) single digits hundreds of people in a current RPGing community that (I'm tolds) consists of more than 10,000,000 players.</blockquote>

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