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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7333559" data-attributes="member: 16814">Totally agree.&nbsp; I try to make sure I argue from the point of just advocacy for my preferences and not to show other styles are wrong.&nbsp; This is difficult sometimes because describing my journey includes me determining something things don't work for me or that I don't prefer them, and that's negative language that triggers defensive responses (understandably).&nbsp; And then, sometimes, I get tree vision (as opposed to forest vision) on a point.&nbsp; This happens especially in threads where fisking is more common, as ideas get separated out into elements that then undergo the same transition.&nbsp; I admit there's been a few times that I've looked back at something and suddenly realized I'm now arguing against an earlier position because of how the details have been taken up.&nbsp; Lately, I've adopted looking at my post and trying to figure if what I just said was helpful or not.&nbsp; A large part of my last reply to [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] was me boring down on details that really didn't matter and were being argued because they were being argued.&nbsp; I like to argue, so this is an easy hole to fall into.&nbsp; Largely, though, I think that there's a lot of self-identification wrapped up in our hobbies, especially ones that are as personal as RPGs can be.&nbsp; I used to manage a hobby shop and the three classes of customer I had the most problems with were the train guys, the Napoleonic wargamers, and the RPG players.&nbsp; Pretty much for the same reasons -- they all had incredibly specific demands for inventory, they didn't accept that I could order in very expensive lots of things without a promise of purchase (you don't go into the hobby business to be rich), and would all try to monopolize time talking about their hobbies to exhaustion.&nbsp; These were always minefields to negotiate, as you wanted to keep a customer, make a sale, make them happy about the sale, and not spend all day on a small or no sale interaction.&nbsp; Huh, I had a point when I started this, but now it appears I've just gone off into storyland.&nbsp; Still, maybe there's something in there that might make someone think or laugh or relate, so I'll just again say that RPGs are something people really identify personally with, and it's hard to extract that when you hear someone say something that sounds like you don't play right.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7333559, member: 16814"] Totally agree. I try to make sure I argue from the point of just advocacy for my preferences and not to show other styles are wrong. This is difficult sometimes because describing my journey includes me determining something things don't work for me or that I don't prefer them, and that's negative language that triggers defensive responses (understandably). And then, sometimes, I get tree vision (as opposed to forest vision) on a point. This happens especially in threads where fisking is more common, as ideas get separated out into elements that then undergo the same transition. I admit there's been a few times that I've looked back at something and suddenly realized I'm now arguing against an earlier position because of how the details have been taken up. Lately, I've adopted looking at my post and trying to figure if what I just said was helpful or not. A large part of my last reply to [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] was me boring down on details that really didn't matter and were being argued because they were being argued. I like to argue, so this is an easy hole to fall into. Largely, though, I think that there's a lot of self-identification wrapped up in our hobbies, especially ones that are as personal as RPGs can be. I used to manage a hobby shop and the three classes of customer I had the most problems with were the train guys, the Napoleonic wargamers, and the RPG players. Pretty much for the same reasons -- they all had incredibly specific demands for inventory, they didn't accept that I could order in very expensive lots of things without a promise of purchase (you don't go into the hobby business to be rich), and would all try to monopolize time talking about their hobbies to exhaustion. These were always minefields to negotiate, as you wanted to keep a customer, make a sale, make them happy about the sale, and not spend all day on a small or no sale interaction. Huh, I had a point when I started this, but now it appears I've just gone off into storyland. Still, maybe there's something in there that might make someone think or laugh or relate, so I'll just again say that RPGs are something people really identify personally with, and it's hard to extract that when you hear someone say something that sounds like you don't play right. [/QUOTE]

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