Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7334550" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, I can tell you about a game I ran several years ago. It was with some people I've played with a lot and I'd consider them to be 'advanced' in terms of being into RPGs and having a good idea of how to make things work, so we were in a "lets see what we can do" mode.So, we all sat down together (online actually, but whatever) and invented a concept for a game. Someone proposed, or we were already kind of talking about, medieval chivalric tales, Arthurian legend and other somewhat similar stuff (there was actually a very wide range of material in those days, even if you limit yourself to say France). I proposed we use a diceless lightweight FATE-like system (maybe its even more like Cortex+ as it has a concept of a pool, though the mechanical details are different). So the other players generated characters, described basically the kind of place they were going to find themselves, the parameters of what they wanted to accomplish, etc. I played the role of GM, which is needed in this system to generate conflict out of the pool of 'stones' and to help regulate the level of tension in the game. Everyone else described characters and what they were doing, and explained how their actions related to the setting, inventing new details in a collaborative way as they seemed needed. In that sense there were no 'secrets', all the PLAYERS know what the world state is, and we can do anything we want with it, including retcons I guess if we wanted.One thing I did do was create a map at one point of the 'Land of Alleterre' where the story takes place, and some areas around it. This amounted to a reasonably significant contribution to the overall setting, but it was highly consonant with what we were all going for. It was also open enough that castles and towns and forests, and monster lairs or whatever could be added as needed.So, there was plenty of world building in the most general sense, I ended up with a fairly hefty 20 or 30 pages of material on the region, as well as a decent map. We played out a good bit of the story we were interested in and then went on to other things. It was fun, and I think it probably basically conformed to the sort of scene-framing type of thing that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] is usually doing (from what I can tell). Truthfully, I think when I hear you guys debating about the map in the room and who gets to decide where it is and when, I think the essence of the question, from a scene-framing standpoint, has been lost. What is this map about? Why is the PC trying to find it? What is he willing to stake on finding it, and what are the consequences if it isn't found? I mean, if its just a map that you might find by chance, then who cares? If it isn't something that the players know will shape the story, then it doesn't even exist. I mean, until some element enters into the story, its just a notion in someone's imagination, or maybe a note scribbled in a notebook that nobody else has ever read. Does a tree make a sound if it falls in the forest and nobody hears it? Does an imaginary map exist if nobody finds it?The point being that that whole debate is pointless until you talk about the greater context. In a Gygaxian sort of game the map is simply a possible resource that may or may not be found, and [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION] is right, a check to find it resolves nothing but the check, either way the character succeeded. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] SHOULD see it the same way! NOTHING IS AT STAKE THAT WE KNOW OF, so there cannot BE 'success' or 'failure' by his criteria! Once the map NEEDS to be found, because it is now a part of the narrative in terms of furthering or resolving some conflict in the game, then by [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s method of play, the PLAYER is entitled to (either by fictional positioning of his character, or by use of a meta-game construct in the rules of play) exercise his agency in the game to bring about a chance of finding that map, regardless of any 'puzzle-solving' aspect of the game. If its just a matter of the character lacking the knowledge to have the agency to control his destiny then in 'Pemertonian' terms the scenario is a railroad, or at least lacks a potential positive outcome that could exist. Its not the case that the player must get his way, BTW, it is only the case that he should have a way to WAGER on success. Failure will propel the scenario into a region of greater stakes and greater tension, which is a perfectly fine outcome for all concerned!</blockquote>

Verification