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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7337807" data-attributes="member: 6785785">While I agree with you overall...if finding the map is meant to be a challenge, then make it so, if not then don’t have it be hidden...I am often amazed at how many old modules I read through that do exactly what you describe in your first paragraph. Some element of the story or location is only accessible by one method and if the PCs are incapable of using that method, or if they fail their attempt, then that’s it. Usually, this was the presence of a secret door that was the only way to reach the final section of the dungeon. It seriously happened a lot, and the game kind of assumes an “oh well, you failed” attitude.I think it’s an artifact of what the game was in those early days that has carried over a bit because of how often those materials are looked at for inspiration or guidance in adventure design. I have played in games where things have ground to a halt and we’re all just wandering the entire dungeon again trying to find whatever it is that we mossed that will allow us to complete the module. When that happens, I find it to be the most frustrating and boring experience. And 9 times out of 10, the DM eventually goes “okay so you go back to the master bedroom and you twist the southeastern bedpost counter clockwise and the nearby bookcase slides aside to reveal a tunnel”. For me, that’s an awful gaming experience. And although modern game design has largely moved past it, it’s lingered enough in theh old material or in homebrew games of major fans of the old material that I’ve come across it. I make a conscious effort to make sure my games don’t fall into this trap.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7337807, member: 6785785"] While I agree with you overall...if finding the map is meant to be a challenge, then make it so, if not then don’t have it be hidden...I am often amazed at how many old modules I read through that do exactly what you describe in your first paragraph. Some element of the story or location is only accessible by one method and if the PCs are incapable of using that method, or if they fail their attempt, then that’s it. Usually, this was the presence of a secret door that was the only way to reach the final section of the dungeon. It seriously happened a lot, and the game kind of assumes an “oh well, you failed” attitude. I think it’s an artifact of what the game was in those early days that has carried over a bit because of how often those materials are looked at for inspiration or guidance in adventure design. I have played in games where things have ground to a halt and we’re all just wandering the entire dungeon again trying to find whatever it is that we mossed that will allow us to complete the module. When that happens, I find it to be the most frustrating and boring experience. And 9 times out of 10, the DM eventually goes “okay so you go back to the master bedroom and you twist the southeastern bedpost counter clockwise and the nearby bookcase slides aside to reveal a tunnel”. For me, that’s an awful gaming experience. And although modern game design has largely moved past it, it’s lingered enough in theh old material or in homebrew games of major fans of the old material that I’ve come across it. I make a conscious effort to make sure my games don’t fall into this trap. [/QUOTE]

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