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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7338878" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Well, my choice of words may have been a bit extreme in that &quot;you can't win&quot; or anything. But given how early modules were presented, it's odd to me to potentially exclude any of the potential action due to the presence of a secret door or something similar. I think some modules did this, and that that design choice has led some GMs to play in a manner to adhere to what's written or been determined beforehand even if it means play grinds to a halt.I was commenting on that phenomenon and how its informed play since by some GMs. I think you took my comments and created a binary situation where none exists. Sure....this is the approach that I think most GMs and players woudl kind of expect. Not that they will be free from failure. Just that all situations are dynamic, and succeeding or failing is ultimately just going to lead to the next steps in the story. Your last line is what I was talking about. Wasting play time on what is really a minor goal rather than moving things along to more worthwhile play. I realize I said &quot;walking around waiting to roll high enough&quot; but I honestly meant all those things you listed. Mapping, divination or detection magic, skills.....all to find a door. For me, that's not how I want to spend my time at the table, and the players I play with agree, so I don't let my game get bogged down in it. It's just not fun compared to most of the rest of the game. I re-purpose a lot of published material, and if I encounter anything like this that will slow things down to a slog for some minor detail like a secret door, then I simply change it.....the door's not secret or whatever.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7338878, member: 6785785"] Well, my choice of words may have been a bit extreme in that "you can't win" or anything. But given how early modules were presented, it's odd to me to potentially exclude any of the potential action due to the presence of a secret door or something similar. I think some modules did this, and that that design choice has led some GMs to play in a manner to adhere to what's written or been determined beforehand even if it means play grinds to a halt. I was commenting on that phenomenon and how its informed play since by some GMs. I think you took my comments and created a binary situation where none exists. Sure....this is the approach that I think most GMs and players woudl kind of expect. Not that they will be free from failure. Just that all situations are dynamic, and succeeding or failing is ultimately just going to lead to the next steps in the story. Your last line is what I was talking about. Wasting play time on what is really a minor goal rather than moving things along to more worthwhile play. I realize I said "walking around waiting to roll high enough" but I honestly meant all those things you listed. Mapping, divination or detection magic, skills.....all to find a door. For me, that's not how I want to spend my time at the table, and the players I play with agree, so I don't let my game get bogged down in it. It's just not fun compared to most of the rest of the game. I re-purpose a lot of published material, and if I encounter anything like this that will slow things down to a slog for some minor detail like a secret door, then I simply change it.....the door's not secret or whatever. [/QUOTE]

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